Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
I believe that is from EPA Region 6, it took a lot of work to get that posted.
EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution
- Thread starter Robert Hinderliter
- Start date
I believe that is from EPA Region 6, it took a lot of work to get that posted.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
At $500 per person with the guest room at $50 and the meeting room at $300 per day (yes, I called them.) And a round trip ticket at $300 you would only need two people to get all of Pete's investment back plus a little in your pocket. If you had ten you would have been able to put over $3500 in your pocket for the day.
Contrast that with my roundtable, $50 bucks a person barely even covered the cost of the room at the Flamingo. Ron had to go out and buy a $750 42 inch TV at Walmart out of his own pocket because they didn't have the AV equipment set up. At the end of the day he had a drawing and gave the TV away.
And all this happening while you are bragging that your son makes 10 million dollars a year. Is this the way you "give back" to the industry?
I hope the information you gave these "elite" contractors was worth the admission fee. Where are they now by the way?
Contractors for Contractors is a great concept.
Maybe the time has come for us to try it.
Contrast that with my roundtable, $50 bucks a person barely even covered the cost of the room at the Flamingo. Ron had to go out and buy a $750 42 inch TV at Walmart out of his own pocket because they didn't have the AV equipment set up. At the end of the day he had a drawing and gave the TV away.
And all this happening while you are bragging that your son makes 10 million dollars a year. Is this the way you "give back" to the industry?
I hope the information you gave these "elite" contractors was worth the admission fee. Where are they now by the way?
Contractors for Contractors is a great concept.
Maybe the time has come for us to try it.
Yes, I made a presentation to Gwinnett County and several surrounding communities in the Atlanta, GA area. At the time Atlanta was charging $350.00 for every load of waste water dropped off at the POTW. That was why I was called in.
Pete with Sunbite paid for my expenses. After the presentation and training Pete took over, as he was local and completed everything. With that as a basis he then built his own Environmental Program, which as Environmental Chairman that is exactly what I am supposed to do; empower the local person to be an expert and help write the BMPs.
As an Association that is what PWNA is supposed to do also. Give the local StakeHolder what he needs to go into the Local AHJ and be able to speak the language with authority. Normally they get 15 minutes which turns into 2 hours because they have information of real value based on experience since January 2, 1996.
In this case I trained a local Distributor. However, I have trained more contract cleaners to take over, than Distributors.
Presently we have a complete program for the Municipalities to build upon which makes the local person an expert. Most contractors make very few changes, if any; however, they are free to change whatever they want.
Clean County PW
Active member
That's correct.
Those two examples in there about vacuuming up the waste water or berming The processed water so it can evaporate gives guy openings to CYOA if approached by An AHJ.
To have nothing once again in your arsenal if approach is a recipe for failure.
I'm not talking about moving waste water off premise. Still learning about that one. In parking garages where learning how to move waste water,redirect waste water thru filtration and move it from one floor to another and capturing and disposing sludge in acceptable ways(this is some learning experience where going thru to fine tune that)
Clean County PW
Active member
Great concept.. Good luck. It hasn't worked yet. If you really believe that then you have to remove your involvement with any contractor that is considered a vendor as well. Contractors for Contractor means just that. Not Vendor/Contractors for Contractors.
So Robert what happens when a Powerwashers gets into and accident carrying alleged wash water. This wash water is now all over someone else's property or worse in the ms4
Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
It's about time you were schooled in what a vendor is.
Here, maybe this will help.
Real Estate agent who sells Mary K on the side = Real Estate Agent.
Estée Lauder executive or owner = Vendor.
Doug Rucker, contractor who sells a cleaning product to get quantity discounts for himself = Contractor
Delco/Deluxe/Rahsco/Powerwash.com or whatever they have been required to change their name to this week - primary business is selling goods = Vendor
Any questions?
Since you were a cop till last year everytime you talk about your experience in the business I'm going to come back with the claim that you have only been a contractor for less than a year. Before that you were a cop, with a hobby on the side.
Is that a fair assessment?
Then neither is your constant complaining about Doug being a vendor.
Clean County PW
Active member
Common Tony-- low blow. This has nothing to do with Doug. Nothing. This point was to you only. Cheap shot saying I only been a contractor for 1 yr.
I caught similar flak yrs ago when I served on the PWNA board. Doesn't matter. Anyone can make fun of my status all they want.. If I can help someone I don't worry about labels..
I'm trying to be constructive with you here. I talked to Ron the other day about someone(not you) that is a big supporter of only contractors being involved with issues like this.
I'll let Ron say what he thinks about this but I believe like I did when I was involved with The PWNA's everyday organization decisions that we involve any Industry people we can to for example serve on the board(my stance on that then was out of 11 BODS only allow at most 3 to be distributors at any one time and I'm sure if the roles were reversed and I was involved in a distributor type org such as CETA they would probably restrict the amount of contractors to hold a position in there. Right now I think a contractor only can not even be a member--don't quote me on that)
My stance is to allow distributors & Contractors to work together on this "All important" issue... So it has nothing to do with any names you may bring out. My question had everything to do with you elaborating more on the idea that failed
"Contractors for Contractors" only...
Clean County PW
Active member
I LOVE THIS THREAD-- oops sorry. Couldn't help myself(smile)
810f250
Griffs Services PowerWash
Robert, that is also the indicated position of the local AHJ of the gas station location, I have posed the question to them now to reconsider runoff to such install if simple " process water " BMP's are implemented?
What do you think maybe an acceptable "process water" BMP's that an AHJ may consider that will allow the water to enter the storm water BMP in gas station video?
I have been more observant of storm runoff in my area in the last few rainy days and the various visible storm water installs in areas that I pass.
One of the questions I have been asking myself , what is the major constituents of the solution of pressure washed concrete areas that are driven over and become blackened.
How much of it is asphalt binder/sealer , organics, atmospheric pollutants that have settled on surfaces? What about the natural oxidation (not sure if that is the best descriptive term) of concrete surfaces.
The photoed drive thru does not have any mayor oil stains, wash solution produced is a dark coffee color.
Guy Blackmon
Roundtable Host 2009
This confuses me Mr. Hinderliter....On "Who's" foundation should I/We build on and what history do you think I'm trying to re-write?
I have stated many times "I Have No Problems With The CWA"..."I Am A BMP Compliant Contractor".... "I Have No Problems With The EPA"............
I do however have a problem with the Bastardization & Prostitution of the CWA at the local and State level being aided by persons and/or Organizations that claim to represent our Industry. I have a problem with PW Contractors being Branded as a major source of "Pollution" to the point that "storm-water workshops" are lead by LEO's armed with guns. I have a problem with a pencil neck idiot in my area bragging that he "Popped" 2 Contractors for $1000.00 a piece for not controlling their waste water at a couple of fast-food joints....and he doesn't know the difference between the CWA & the NFL.
I have a problem with the Bastardization & Prostitution of the CWA at the local and State level being used as a blatant revenue stream aided by persons and/or Organizations that claim to represent our Industry.
I have a problem with persons and/or Organizations that claim to represent our Industry that sit by and let this happen to our Industry.
So is that the "Foundation" I'm/We're supposed to "Build" on Mr. Hinderliter???......Because, Yes that is a history I'd like to see rewritten.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Guy, I hope that last batch of screenshots gave you all the answers you were looking for.
Ever feel like this guy?
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Ever feel like this guy?
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
As this thread grows I'd like to take this opportunity to correct a myth.
I can see how some distributors and/or manufacturers could take some of the things I've said and think it is my opinion that all of them are bad.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Many of these distributors have been sucked into the same sales pitch that the contractors were. No one can blame them for wholeheartedly selling something they were fully convinced was necessary.
I'm sure Pete from Sunbrite was fully convinced that he was helping contractors by selling reclaim equipment based on the information Robert gave him. I don't know Pete that well, but there's nothing from his past that would lead me to believe he wasn't just doing what he thought was right based on the information Robert was feeding him.
Many distributors fall into that same category.
But some of them are just simply opportunists who have no qualms whatsoever about selling based on lies. Those are the ones this industry could do without.
While many manufacturers have decided that pumps, heaters, and motors are just fine (even though we spend half our time repairing them) and rather than work towards "building a better machine", they have chosen to jump onto the reclaim bandwagon because it looked like an easier and cheaper way to increase their bottom line and came with the bonus that, according to Robert they will be "eventually" required on every job. It was a built in client base enforced by the jack boots of the government.
After claiming this was "just around the corner" for many years, it just wasn't working anymore. Contractors all over the place were selling their rarely used reclaim equipment on craigslist for pennies on the dollar. So Robert had to step it up a bit.
He had to take it upon himself to make the regulators believe that they must require this equipment on every job. He did this by slipping in the "hot water emulsificati0n" issue into the BMP's. That way, once they copied his "verbiage" (just like he admitted they do above) then reclaim will be required everywhere, all the time.
Meanwhile honest hardworking guys like Jerry and Paul are working day and night to help build a better, more reliable machine while working on reclaim based on the instances where reclaim can actually speed up the work.
My hat is off to guys like Jerry, Paul and Pete. We should reward them by buying equipment from them and never, ever buy any equipment from any distributor that uses lies or the government to make sales for them.
We need to carefully scrutinize the character of our distributors and separate the sheep from the goats. Many unnecessary reclaim units were sold based on falsehoods. We need to let the innocent ones know that we don't hold it against them and they need our support.
Just ask them to be more careful in where they get their information from next time.
I can see how some distributors and/or manufacturers could take some of the things I've said and think it is my opinion that all of them are bad.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Many of these distributors have been sucked into the same sales pitch that the contractors were. No one can blame them for wholeheartedly selling something they were fully convinced was necessary.
I'm sure Pete from Sunbrite was fully convinced that he was helping contractors by selling reclaim equipment based on the information Robert gave him. I don't know Pete that well, but there's nothing from his past that would lead me to believe he wasn't just doing what he thought was right based on the information Robert was feeding him.
Many distributors fall into that same category.
But some of them are just simply opportunists who have no qualms whatsoever about selling based on lies. Those are the ones this industry could do without.
While many manufacturers have decided that pumps, heaters, and motors are just fine (even though we spend half our time repairing them) and rather than work towards "building a better machine", they have chosen to jump onto the reclaim bandwagon because it looked like an easier and cheaper way to increase their bottom line and came with the bonus that, according to Robert they will be "eventually" required on every job. It was a built in client base enforced by the jack boots of the government.
After claiming this was "just around the corner" for many years, it just wasn't working anymore. Contractors all over the place were selling their rarely used reclaim equipment on craigslist for pennies on the dollar. So Robert had to step it up a bit.
He had to take it upon himself to make the regulators believe that they must require this equipment on every job. He did this by slipping in the "hot water emulsificati0n" issue into the BMP's. That way, once they copied his "verbiage" (just like he admitted they do above) then reclaim will be required everywhere, all the time.
Meanwhile honest hardworking guys like Jerry and Paul are working day and night to help build a better, more reliable machine while working on reclaim based on the instances where reclaim can actually speed up the work.
My hat is off to guys like Jerry, Paul and Pete. We should reward them by buying equipment from them and never, ever buy any equipment from any distributor that uses lies or the government to make sales for them.
We need to carefully scrutinize the character of our distributors and separate the sheep from the goats. Many unnecessary reclaim units were sold based on falsehoods. We need to let the innocent ones know that we don't hold it against them and they need our support.
Just ask them to be more careful in where they get their information from next time.
tomtucson
New member
Nigel, I'm just doing the math on this. Billions! of auto-miles - This means oil, grease, antifreeze, brake dust etc, all on a substrate of tar. This source dwarfs others. Some good independent analysis of all the various runoffs would be great.
tomtucson
New member
Nigel, I'm just doing the math on this. Billions! of auto-miles - This means oil, grease, antifreeze, brake dust etc, all on a substrate of tar. This source dwarfs others. Some good independent analysis of all the various runoffs would be great.
Cooper
New member
I got a silly question.
Ok biodegradable means that whatever it is will break down and return back to nature. Far as I know, everything ON this planet CAME FROM this planet right?? Far as I know, we don't get stuff to make things from outer space yet so EVERYTHING IMO is biodegradable. You leave a chunk of metal on the ground long enough and it will rust away right? Anything and everything on this planet is made from stuff that came from this planet! Earth adapts and renews itself for the most part and us pressure cleaners (very few compared to the rest of the population) cause a LOT less pollution than most factories themselves cause! IMO we help the environment by washing away pollution, germs that cause sickness, bacteria, mold and mildew, etc
I'm with Tom, you mean we cant clean the asphalt tracked onto concrete without capturing our water but city and county hwy departments can just pour it on the ground to make our roads!!!!! You can't tell me that in the hot summer, a quick afternoon shower doesn't wash some of the hot asphalt (hydrocarbons!!) into the ground, into ditches, into storm drains, etc.
Ok biodegradable means that whatever it is will break down and return back to nature. Far as I know, everything ON this planet CAME FROM this planet right?? Far as I know, we don't get stuff to make things from outer space yet so EVERYTHING IMO is biodegradable. You leave a chunk of metal on the ground long enough and it will rust away right? Anything and everything on this planet is made from stuff that came from this planet! Earth adapts and renews itself for the most part and us pressure cleaners (very few compared to the rest of the population) cause a LOT less pollution than most factories themselves cause! IMO we help the environment by washing away pollution, germs that cause sickness, bacteria, mold and mildew, etc
I'm with Tom, you mean we cant clean the asphalt tracked onto concrete without capturing our water but city and county hwy departments can just pour it on the ground to make our roads!!!!! You can't tell me that in the hot summer, a quick afternoon shower doesn't wash some of the hot asphalt (hydrocarbons!!) into the ground, into ditches, into storm drains, etc.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
And Tom and Nigel, let's look at two examples of environmental cleaning:
1) Your Gas station Nigel, is cleaned monthly at a reasonable rate.
Each month the station is swept clean of garbage cigarette butts, etc, oils spots, transmission fluid, and coolant are dry cleaned with absorbent and placed in the trash.
Contaminant specific filters or booms filter the runoff.
The place is cleaned in a short time using only one small engine further reducing air contamination.
What little debris is left after filtering is dealt with by the built in system.
Fuel and labor costs are reduced. Customer is happy, his station is clean and his customers fuel up at a pleasant fuel pad.
You have a steady monthly income.
2) Your gas station is cleaned annually due to high cost.
The same pre-cleaning BMPs are used. But where the monthly cleanings provided 11 additional opportunities to collect debris, now the debris from cigarette butts to motor oil are left for rain events to wash off directly into the onsite treatment. The onsite treatment now has to deal with 11 more months of heavy, unfiltered runoff each month to further clog the system.
Cleaning takes much longer, is much harder to accomplish and will most certainly require soap or chems to get clean. Cleaning now requires more power equipment working near fuel pumps.
Stains are left longer making them harder or impossible to remove further making our industry look incompetent.
Additionally, you are working so infrequently it is easy for the customer to skip services, or hire someone else because he forgot who you are.
No steady income.
Onsite system clogged with more oil and debris and requires more often service.
Contractor appears ineffective.
Pads become filthy and look like a third world country.
Nigel, this is the real world effect that we are seeing in our travels around the country.
Option #1 is better for the contractor, the customer and the environment
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Clean County PW
Active member
I think Jerry, Paul & Pete are excellent distributors and people as well. According to your idea Tony they cannot be a part of your solution because there Distributors.
Because you want to go back to an idea that failed which was "contractors for contractors" only your making it clear a few of your post back that Distributors can't be a part of the "Solution"
You now in conflict with yourself......?...?....?.....