Hey Wiz/gpm

R

ron p

Member
Please help me to understand.
If i use upstream injection and am mixing my supply water and chem before the pump and have a true 5 gpm pump. I should be getting 5 gpm from the tip.
Now the same pump and downstream injection or x-jet type downstreamer. Is the pump pushing 5 gpm PLUS the draw amount?
So do you flow more with downstreaming then upstreaming?
If it takes 90 sec to empty a 5 gal bucket of chem useing my x-jet.
Am i really getting 8.5 gal per min out of the tip?
The x-jet will draw from 100 ft. if i hooked the supply line from the x-jet to the supply tank to rinse cement or trucks. Did i just increase the amount of GPM and be able to rinse faster?
Are chems less deluted if upstreamed compared to downstreaming?
upsteam is 80% water and 20% chem?[tip exits 5 gpm]
downstreaming is 100% water with 20% chem added?[tip exits 6.5 gpm]
X-jet 100% water and 75% chem?[tip exits 8.5 gpm]
I cant see where my thinking is messed up.
I was under the impression that the pump put's out the 5 gpm no matter what.
maybe i just need to get more sleep?
 
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lol yeah go to sleep Ron. It depends on a # of things but you're right the pump volume is what it is you can't get anymore out of it.
As far as what you get out of the tip when drawing chemical with the x-jet depends on the flow rate of the tip, the orfice size.

You can adjust what you get chem wise upstream or downstream at least I can. My downstreamer is adjustable and I can also adjust up stream to get the draw rate I want.
 
Guess what Ron you are right. The pump is a positive displacement pump and it will put out 5 gpm continuously. When the x jet is added it causes a vetury and draws in the extra volume. That is how a sludge pump attachment can put out 65 gpm from a 5 gpm pump. The only drawback is the pressure is not as high and the action just converts the pressure loss into the extra gpm flow. The cleaning power is the same either way.
 
now were getting somewhere

i do not need pressure to RINSE, i just wanted more volume.
Now when it gets above 30 deg, i am going to tast this out to see how much more volume i can get.
Now for the second part of this question.
If the pump is pulling 5 gpm and im useing UPSTREAM injection at say 20% draw. Then im spraying a 80/ 20 mix. So in 2 min im getting 8 gal of water and 2 gal of chem.
Downstream im getting 10 gal of water and 2 gal of chem.
So upstreaming gives you more of a concentration of chem.
Is this statement true?
Why hav'nt i thought about this before? hummmmmm
something new everyday.
One last question for now.
How meny downstream injectors could you run off 1 pressure line at a time?
16 hp 5 gpm hot water
in other words how meny chems can i pull at one time from seperate tanks?
 
With an injector that sucks thry the pump you will only get 5 gpm max because the pump only draws 5gpm. It will split the flow between the waterinlet and the chem injector. With a down stream you are limited to the suction created inside of the injector. you want alot of flow try using a sand blaster attachment instead of a chemical injector and you will get more flow than any one thought possible. Also a sludge pump attachment will give you about 65 gpm at about 10 psi if you want alot of volume.
 

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I thought upstreamers were at the tip (I.E X-JET) and downstreamers were at the machine
 
Upstream means you are injecting the chemicals BEFORE your pump, therefore your cleaners run though the pump.
 
thanks mike

didn't think I'd get a reply so soon ,thought i was the only night-owl out tonight
 
not hardly

it's 4 AM here.
most mfg dont put up-streamers on a wash unit for fear of a newbie running a chem he should'nt through the pump and coil.
You can order it as an option.
 
sure buddy here is a Down stream. an upstream is just a barb and a metering valve.
 

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Didn't help did it?
 
needle valves
 

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Mike Williamson

HEY Mike

Mike no offense I don't mean to butt in LOL! I'm in Florida too and most of the contractors here seem to use tons of pool chlorine. I don't know what you do or how you do it (cleaning),but you seemed hot on the upstream idea. Just a friendly caution, chlorine upstreamed can lead to disaster for you equipment. You probably already know that but now I can sleep at night .

Good Luck
John
 
I deal with alot of stationary Water Reclaim systems at Trucking Companies. We use 12% chlorine as a sanitizer to kill the bacteria in the system. Almost all of the fittings are PVC and there is not a problem. When there is a brass fitting involved we have to replace it about every 2 or 3 months because the chlorine eats it up. Sometimes a customer will do their own repairs on these systems and they put brass ball valves in the plumbing and I have to go behind them and install plastic again.

The lesson here is don"t use Chlorine on brass unless you have no other choice!
 
Gull:

Hey! Where in FL?

Actually, I'm only looking to upstream soap and wax. I wouldn't dream of putting anything harsh through the pump. I do use pool chlorine, but I cut it way down, to about 2 1/2%, then apply through the X-Jet, so by the time it hits the surface, it is closer to 1% or less. Learned my lesson using too much bleach...haven't killed anything, but I have sure messed up some clothes! Hard to look professional in a shirt that is half red and half pink!

Thanks, Wiz, for the pics, yes they did help! And thanks, Gull, for the advice. I'd rather have someone warn me about something I already know than not warn me about something I don't because they think I already know it! :)

Thanks!

Mike
 
John,

Thanks for the tech tips on the water thingy.

We have a proprietary set-up as some of you may know of that places the chem injector to the hose reel and it's injection rate is about 18-20% The chems change quickly and have enough hose to travel through that they are mixed with the water enough to work. One advantage is that we promote use of water softeners to aid in the process.

The gun is a single lance stainless steel wand with a sliding heat guard. On the end is a tip that changes from high pressure to low pressure. When it's on low pressure, it draws chems through the injector on the reel. There are no handles to turn and there are no buttons to push, just a little finesse and you are on low pressure.

I have set up a number of businesses that use this method from the way they had it, and they wonder where I was years ago. It's all very simple and inexpensive. We sell the complete guns, tested and completely ready to wash. The injector can be quick coupled in and soap lines and all else, in one package. Do-it-yourself kit... something else to work on, right?

Well no matter what you have for a chemical injector and what percent it's mixed with what and all those other good technical questions asked... You are missing the boat if you aren't using soft water. If you are out there using tap water to wash houses or truck fleets, you aren't getting the most out of your equipment or your time. Not only does it do a superior job with less chemical but it sells every job over my competitor. Rarely did I ever go on a sales call and not get the job. Soft water was tipped the scale. It also is easier on your equipment. Everyone on these board seem to talk about decaling and de-liming and all that. Pumps going bad when water sits for a length of time. You know, the usual. Soft water eliminates that.

Take a jar of soft water and a jar of unsoftened tap water. Put 10 drops of a soap in the hard water jar and 1 drop in the soft water jar... shake. The suds will be in the soft water jar. That one drop is working more than 10 in the hard water. That goes for our injection of chemicals also. NOTICEABLE difference.

Just my two cents about the softeners and chems.
 

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