Investing for Retirement or ....

P

Paul B.

Member
Anyone with extra couple of bucks? (Not the 4 legged ones!)

It may be worth your while to check out Valance Technologies...
Ticker - VLNC

This would be a high risk - high reward investment.
$1000 will get you 500+ shares. If you ride the waves and keep from being too greedy, with in and out, it has potentials.

Valence makes and licenses Lithium-ion batteries and technologies. Last week they were $0.70 a share, today they are $1.80. Do your own research.

Also check out their message board on Yahoo - Financial - VLNC.
The message board in itself is worth the visit, with interesting and colorful characters (not unlike these boards). The bashing can be brutal but the tech information is also excellent.


I've been an on-off investor for close to 10 years.

Regards,
 
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Jon,

Remember one of the key words - "Diversity"

For history 3M (MMM) has been great over the past 3 years and has gone opposite the overall market. This is a blue chip and at a high price, but it will continue the move upwards, especially if the market picks up.

I like Sun Microsystems (SUNW) last week at $2.50 today at $4.25 they are still under valued (their company worth is at least $5 per share). If you look at the long chart it looks scary, but you buy close to the bottom, not close to the top. That's how you get to own the big boats.

Also like Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) another blue chip. At $55.34 today it's a lot, but if you look at the 5 yr chart, it's protected it's investors over the upside down market of the past 2 years. Upside potential is great when market starts moving. Similar philosophy as SUNW.

One more Blue Chip for you - Fifth Third Bank (FITB) Very conservative bank (I've banked with them for 30 years) they are tight with their credit cards but offer good rates. Their growth and splits have been excellent over the past 10 years. If you look past their minor skirmish with the write-off error (NOT EVEN CLOSE TO AN ENRON fiasco) you'll find them coming out smelling like the "old roses" over the long run. They are located in several large grocery chains (banking open 7 days a week there), buying up smaller banks and still maintaining control on costs.

OK, I'll throw in one more - Paychex (PAYX) they may even be doing your payroll and taxes (you dont have to look very far for good investments). Look for this to be a long term investment and if you overlook the blip of the recent market, it pays dividends and has split (3:2) 8 times since '92.

Go for the DRIPS as they will get you cost averaging and it's less expensive. Some companies like P&G will allow you to purchase directly from them.

You don't have to work hard to achive financial success, just have to work smart!



Regards,
 
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VLNC is at $2.17 today.

Lets say you purchased 10,000 shares 2 weeks ago at $0.70 or $7,000.

What would you do today?

If you sold 3500 shares, it would cover the cost of the 10,000 shares, leaving you with 6500 shares at $0 cost.
If it goes to $3 per share, sell another 2500 shares ($7500 minus taxes).
If it should go back to $0.70, you still make another $2800 at that price.


Path to retirement is not always a yellow brick road!
You'll make 80% of your money on 20% of your stocks.


Regards,
 
Paul,
I played the market game like alot of others did from 1997-2001.
I think I had around 6 ipo's which were very tough to get that were easy money makers back then. I'm talking about ipo's that went for $9/share and a couple of days dumped it for $60+/share.

My friends and I had around 8 different online brokerage accounts each. Some even had more. When you sell an IPO right away you would be lucky to get another one from that brokerage account..hence the reason why we had different accounts.

We also formed an investor group where we got stock even before it became an IPO. To do this the group must have at least a 1,000,000 credit rating which us 10 guys combined was able to do which is the foundation of an investor group. INTERLAND (INLD) was one of the companies I had 2000 shares of @$3/share and a year later the IPO was $12/share. Because I was involved with this investor group none of were allowed to unload the stock untill 6 months later.

Needless to say..the Market turned around at about this time and when it was time to selll this stock it was at around a $1/share. I ended up selling it for $1.50/share a year ago. If it was 1-2 years earlier this stock would have been worth at least $200/share. I call this my big brake in life where I just missed the boat.

The end result..I made thousands and lost at least just as much in the end. I was one of the lucky ones.

The moral of the story for me and many others is if you are going to invest with the stock market, DIVERSIFY, and make sure you have some of your $$$$ in ROCK SOLID COMPANIES and keep it there for MANY YEARS. Do not try to day trade because the odds are you will LOSE in the end.

Also here's my tip for the day...."Make money the old fashion way by EARNING IT"...............Like Powerwashing.:)

P/S- I am not knocking the market but be careful and make sure the money that one uses to invest is not money that the person will miss if lost. Another words not money that you need to depend on.
 
John,

It sounds like you learned the hard way. Hopefully it didn't scare you away. I don't think banks will allow you to make enough interest on your money to allow for comfortable retirement.

There are a couple of great books on investing that talk about the same as you mentioned (key basics) such as - Long Term Investing / Diversify / Pick Solid Companies.

In the last 5 years, market strategies have been turned upside down. Almost everything was hyped and over-priced by the end of 2000. Lot of people didn't see it coming and some risked large amounts for sake of greed. My last post indicated a strategy (similar to a professional gambler) which provides some amount of protection to avoid losses. DRIPS are another method (cost averaging) which will create large gains over a longer period of time without high risk. A balance of stocks, bonds, mutual funds and property would be considered an ideal portfolio by me. (You could also add gun collecting and antiques to diversify even more.)

Unfortunately IPO's became sucker games for the majority of people. Again, people forgot the basic rule of investing - Invest in a solid company with solid product(s). I make it a rule not to use more than 10% of my portfolio for long shots or high risk investments.

I never avoided hard work - it just gets harder to do every year.

As with all great things, investing in the market should be done in moderation - always have liquid assets handy (cash).


Regards,
 
Paul,
You are to smart for me;) Everything that you are saying is right on. I can only explain from my experiences. I even did a few options back then which we all know is high risk.

The bottom line is to be succesfull you have to be a risk taker. Don't be stupid of course but do take risk.

I remember a while back seeing a Biography on the Kennedy's a family full of risk takers. Not being a real fan of most of them I do admire there abilities to take risk without letting others drag them down.

The part of that biography that really stuck out in my mind was about the family monarch Joseph Kennedy(The father/Grandfather etc. of the famous family). Yes he made some money from Prohibition but the real money he made was to continuosly play options(Puts) for the market to go down. He made millions doing this and that was back in the 20's-30's.

Yes playing a stock to go down is tough to do but he had some extra dough and he was willing to take a risk.

Just think where I/You would be today if we were doing options over the last 2+ yrs for the stocks to go down.

This is why I am out of the stock game. My mind wants to take risk but my Heart won't let me. (Wife doesn't want me to either).

I will just do the 457k and direct most of my energy towards making money the way I know best.

For anyone else......Only they know
 
VLNC closed at $2.32 today.
It is a good time to buy certain stocks.

I think a lot of people have the misconception about the market as being a form of gambling - especially if the basics are ignored (diversify / pick solid companies / long term investing). Puts, IPO's and day trading are a form of gambling and are very high risk especially if you don't do a lot of homework. High risk investments can give you very high returns, if you don't lose most of it.

All I can say is that the market has been very good to me over the past 15-20 years. Companies like Home Depot, Comair, P&G, Coca Cola, Paychex and Disney have given me the opportunity to smell the roses as I get older and have made working a lot more enjoyable. (Don't get me wrong - I've had my share of losses).

It's all about patience, patience, patience and long term investing. (Similar in principle to letting the chemicals dwell and do their work.)

I'll give you an example with Comair - 1000 shares for $3 each ($3000). Over the span of 10 years, they split (3:2) 8 times. At the end of 10 years the original 1000 shares grows into 25,000 shares - at $30 per share their value was over $750,000 before Delta bought them out. Disney has split 3 times since 1985 (4:1 / 4:1 / 3:1). 1000 shares initially would have been turned into 48,000 shares after their 3rd split in 1998. Since 1985 Fifth Third Bank (FITB) has split 9 times, Paychex (PAYX) 10 splits, Coca Cola had 4 splits, Home Depot had 13 splits since 1982. I would say they were all solid companies with Comair being the riskiest of the bunch.
 
Interesting thread!! My son would be interested in this. He is an analyst for a proprietary trading firm (hedge fund) in Chicago. I am oversimplifying, but their goal is to achieve greater than market returns, but in a nearly risk free environment (i.e. low volatility). Takes a ton of cash, work, and patience, but they get it done. Sorta the opposite of the 'flyer' approach. Interesting comparison.
 
Ron,

How come you're taking a beating?

You must not do enough homework - shame on you.

Here's a hint: SMCFX
Schroder Ultra Inv. - Small Blend (Performance)
$10K Min. Investment / No Load / 2% Expense Ratio (bit high) /
Subsequent $2500 / Min. IRA $2500
(Negative - High Capital Gains $20.27 in 2001)

Returns for past 5 years:
2002 YTD = 17%
2001 = 73%
2000 = 147%
1999 = 94%
1998 = 63%

Question:
$10K invested 5 years ago would be how much today????


I hope you're not one of those folks that when you get in the bottom drops out. If you are, let me know before you get in so I can move mine somewhere else.

"May your positive cash flow be endless."

Regards,
 
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I play the market in a way, I have whole life insurance with The Gaurdian, which if the market stays at current projection will have a huge cash value at retirement. I picked them because they pay the highest dividends and your gaurenteed money goes up as well as your projected dividend payout. Lets put it this way, by the time my sons ready for college the cash value will pay his way plus put him in a new ride for making papa proud. If he dosn't go I will buy the car of his dreams for me to drive to make him wish he had...lol...

I threw my college plans away but I WILL NOT let him do it.
 
Hi Paul,

What the H--- happened to VLNC - it's taking a dive! Since it's nasdaq and a penny stock you're dealing with a broad spread of bid and ask price. I bought in at $2.00, I am booking it with a stop loss of $1.80. There is too much volutility in these thinly traded issues. You bought in at 70 cents so you're good to go unless you dollar cost averaged up.

Win some, etc. I guess. "Never invest money you can't afford to lose." That's my motto!
 
I believe the adage is "never GAMBLE money you can't afford to lose". Investing deals with existing risk. Gambling CREATES risk. Big difference when avaricious human nature enters.
Richard
 
Times are just real tough right now no matter how you look at it.

Sure things like 401 and 457k's are losing money hand over fist. Another sure thing is the college fund 529 where money is taken out of your check before taxes and put into a college fund for your kids. Another winner...that is taking a beating.

Just looking at these investments is depressing. As for Penny stock its a real gamble. The reason why they are worth pennies/share in the first place.

K-mart is about to get delisted and will trade OTC(Penny stocks) What a shame. You would think dumping money into this one time excellent company right now would be the right thing to do to make some cash but it also may go belly up where you lose it all.

At times the stocks could be compared to GLORIFIED GAMBLING.

Either way be careful and the best of luck.
 
Ron,
I took a mad dash across the pond to spend some of my profits (and earn a bit more on a contract).

Indiana Jones,
Bailed out a bit too quick on VLNC - was at $4.65 a couple of months ago and is at about $3.20 today. Could have easily doubled your pleasure in 6 months or less.

You have to ride this train all the way. There have been and will be many more hills and valleys (ups and downs). The view going down a mountainside can be scary but if you know the engineer is not Casey Jones, you can be sure the opposite side of the mountain will be uphill. No promises, but if it's like another one I tagged a while back, the ride could last 15 years. Watch the lows and high hills.

I think Valence recently signed an agreement with ZAP (Zero Air Pollution) to distribute 10 hr. laptop battery.
They have their hands in many deep pockets and it's only the beginning. Wafer thin, light weight, long lasting, non-acid batteries. Think about it cell phones, laptops, vehicles, video cameras, PDA's ....
 
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