Nj Dep

T

thebigjr

New member
This is just an FYI!!

I postred a week or so ago about NJ's GreenStart program. This Is where you send in a form to the NJDEP and they review what you do and help you learn to comply with the EPA rules.

I sent in the form about 3 weeks ago. It was suggested on this board that they would never get back to me because they are to busy. Well they called me to today and want to come check out my Rig.

I don't have a rig yet and we have been playing phone tag today, so i don't know what is going to happen next, but I will keep you informed.
 
My suggestion is go to the state web site, then to the EPA section and read up on what is required.

That way you are fimilarly with things in case they ask you questions such as what are you cleaning, what chemicals, do you have the MSDS papers and if you don't better get them now, without those in your vehicle your in muddy waters for several reasons.

Know the law as to how much chemicals you can carry without having to have the diamond plates on each side with chemical numbers on them. Some states allow under 5 gallons mixed, others under 50. Also the raw unmixed amount.

Then learn the locations you can dump, do you have to reclaim all water or ?

The bottom line of the Clean Water Act of 1972 is NO water down the drain.

That means not even a glass of tap water out of your house.

That is the extreme but also the law.

Ok I made it easy for you, go to the link below and have fun.

http://www.state.nj.us/Environment.html

Jon
 
FYI.

I talked to NJDEP compliance enforcement office today. Stated that I didn't really have anything for them to inspect, but I have a ton of questions on what is required.

We have scheduled a confrence call with several heads of departments that can answer my questions. this call in supposed to take place on Friday. I will let you know what happens.

Any questions you want asked?
 
ron p

if you do collect the wash water do you need any special permit to haul it?
Where do you take the dirty water?
Where do they test the water?[if it need's to be tested]
Do you need to get every tank of water tested?
Can you get a water meter from the water co. and use a fire hydrent?
Is it OK to just block the water from a storm drain and pump the waste water to a grassy area or an area that is away from a storm drain.[no hauling]
Thanks for the offer to be able to ask questions, i dont want to make a pig of myself.
Looking forward to hearing back from you.
rottie72@aol.com
 
Update!

Had confrence call this morning. It went ok. I didn't get to ask many questions. It was decided that we need to have a face to face meeting. We are meeting next Friday morning March 7.

They told me that they are going to give me everything I have to do in writing in plain simple english. I told them that the only thing I know 100% for sure is I cannot let the water go down the storm drain(that was the only thing they would confirm on the phone).

Thanks for the questions. they are along the same lines I had in mind. Any more question out there.
 
Two words to learn.

Waste water.

Reclaimed water.

Be very careful which you use, one can cost you a lot of headaches and the other very few if any.

True if you follow the rules 100% no water down the storm drain. Do you have an 18 wheeler tanker truck to haul all that water you pick up during the night?

Or do you want to do one job, drive miles to a certified waste dumping station, dump your water then go back to your next job?

That is what you must do, you cannot MIX two jobs, each has it's own continements, they are not allowed to be mixed, that is the law.

Ok extreme YES, enforced 100%, NO but you must make every effort to comply with what your city, county and state require. Each has its own rules.

Jon
 
i sure dont want

to recycle the water or haul it away if their is just a way to devert it from a storm drain.
Can you use one of those storm drain covers that have the booms in them to clean the water and just let the rest do down the drain?
It comes down to "what is the cheapest way to stay compliant?"
 
Ron, I am not sure what they are going to give me besides a headach. Just that what we cover and the rules we agree to will be in writing.

Jon, This is why I am going through all of this, Everyone and I mean Everyone that I have talked to has a diffrent Idea of what is right or wrong. As the DEP told me this morning they are the only one that can give me the right answer. Thanks for the hint with the two types of water.
 
Follow-Up to GreenStart

www.state.nj.us/dep/enforcement/factsht.htm

This is the link to the program. It is designed to help small businesses comply with environmental obligations. David Tiggs , the cooridinator of is program and I just had a great conversation. He understands my knowledge in this area as well as I understand what they are trying to do in regards to compliance. They are going to make a more concerted effort to "police" issues and they want to educate everyone first. They will come out to your site and answer questions and go over equipment and such. I talked to him about attending a "Roundtable Meeting" or a group meeting to discuss issues with folks in this industry and he agreed to doing a "workshop" , the details would have to be worked out. I also explained to him that others who haven't returned my calls in the past as well as the irresponsible nature of the drought restrictions of last year and how that impacts local townships and the industry. Anyone who would like to discuss this further please call or e-mail me
eabrams@deckrestorationplus.com I am interested to see how many contractors we could get together for such a workshop and if folks want to do this.

bigjr,
Thanks for bringing this up as I never heard of this program and I believe this program answers a lot of questions for people not familiar with these issues.

Jon,
As soon as we discussed specifics and waste water/ reclaim/recycle/filters/hazardous waste etc. California was brought up immediately. You guys are certainly leading the way.Must be nice!

By the way , if you guys are working near any marinas...HEADS UP! Again anyone who wants to know about this discussion feel free to contact me 1-866-440-3325. I usually just give my two cents but I think I gave about a nickel this time.
 
Some things to think about. Just some more info I have gathered. FYI

In my other business I have attended some enviromential siminars held by the NJDEP. These were relating to the Automotive industry.

A lot people think there is no real enforcement of these EPA/DEP rules/laws.

The DEP is to small to be everywhere, so they focus on a few areas/industrys at a time. So you might NOT see or hear from them for 6 months/1 year/10 years, but next week could be when they focus on your area/industry.

The first offense MAY just be a warning, but your now on the watch list. Can you afford to still service your customers at the rate you quoted them now that you really Do have to Follow the EPA/DEP rules? Do you have the capitol to invest in the right equipment now?

In this way the DEP is kinda like OSHA. I never saw OSHA until I had a pallet on it's side up aginst a wall (incase you don't know that is a $1000 fine per pallet) Then OSHA seemed to be there all the time.
 
The Big Meeting

Update:
*****It is up to you to do your due dilligence on any environmental matter. This forum is intened solely to help point you in the right direction. Research regulations on a Federal, State, and Local level before proceding. ******

This only for FLEETWASHING

Ok I had my meeting with the NJDEP this moring. The meeting went great.
It is kinda hard to put down in words everything we dicussed, but I will try.
As you all know, You cannot let the water go down the Storm Drain. Yes, It is illegal for the homeowner or charity to do car washing and let it go down the drain as well(just that it is overlooked until someone complains). so the first thing you must do is block off the drains.

Now what you do with the water depends on your situation. The recomended thing to do is collect the water and dispose of it in a Sanitary sewer or solid waste disposial facility. These can be at your customers location or at an off site location.
You can hope for evaporation to happen so you don't have to collect the water, but this could run in to problems. If and when the water evaporates it can leave containminates on the ground, rain can easying carry these to the storm drain. IF this causes a problem to the enviroment then the DEP can hold you responsable.
You Can NOT pump the water to some grassy area!
The use of a wash matt in highly recomended, but is not required.

How to haul the water. I am still waiting for confirmation, but Yes you are going to need a Solid Waste Hauler Permit. Good news it is only $100 per truck/van and it is good for 2 years. That is right Wash Water is classified as SOLID WASTE. You only need this if you will be removing the water from your customers' site.

You can normally dispose of the water in a Sanitary sewer like a slop sink or toilet. You need to check with your customer and sewer co. You can also contact you local sewer comapny to find where you can dispose of the water.

Those "filters" that go on the drains will not work.

Good news for dealership washing, and this can change at anytime. If you are only washing NEW cars with Just RO/DI water and nothing else, you can let the water go down the drain. The cars cannot be driven regularly(you can't wash the demo car the boss has been driving). No soaps or additives can be used.

Ok that is all I can type for now. Ask me some questions and I will respond.
 
Oh Yeah Fines can be up to $50,000.00 per day per event. and if your run off kills some fish or somthing it can be way more than that.
 
thanks

for the update.
I know you dont make the rules, you just report them.
It's OK to wash on a gravel road with no storm drains but you cant pump the water away from a storm drain to a gravel area[grassy area].
that is a bit controdictory.
No one in mobile washing can charge enuff to use a mat.
So im glad that's not mandatory.
I have seen guy's dump tanks at self serve car wash's
im sure its ok with the EPA but not the owner of the car wash.
Thank's agin and stay in touch
rottie72@aol.com
 
There is no rules that say you have to do it this way or that way on this area or that surface blah blah blah....

Your job is to do whatever is possiable to make sure that your wash water does not get in to or harm any lakes, rivers,streams, or drinking water. Storm drains lead to these areas this is why the focus on storm drains. that doesn't mean that if your washing on a place that doesn't have drains that your fine. If your water(or any wate that you generate) can make it to one of those areas then that is wrong.

Also rules are changing in NJ. Soon many towns will be required to set thier own guidlines. this means in one town you may have to wash on a mat but the next town you can't wash trucks at all, but the next town will just follow the state guidelines.

Inreguards to getting customer to pay for the service: Say that town passes the rule that all trucks have to be washed on a mat. Now you go in and bid 30 dollars a truck and you are going to wash on a mat and move the trucks blah blah.... then your competitor came in and bid 15 dollars a truck, but he is not going to use a mat. The customer is going to go with the the cheaper rate. That now makes the customer and the washer at fault. In addition to normal fines the Customer will get a "ecnomic benifit" fine as well. for choosing the better deal instead of the right way to do it.
 
If you make arrangements with a car wash to dump your water they said that is fine, the key is you must have permission from the car wash in writing.
 
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