Charlotte NC Wash Seminar April 30

R

Robert Hinderliter

Hall of Fame Member
<TABLE id=Table11 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>For <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Mobile</st1:place> Detailers and Pressure Washers

Sponsored by Charlotte Mecklenburg Storm Water Services and The United Association of <st1:place w:st="on">Mobile</st1:place> Contract Cleaners

April 30<SUP>th</SUP> 8AM – Noon
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placeName w:st="on">Hal</st1:placeName> <st1:placeName w:st="on">Marshall</st1:placeName> <st1:placeName w:st="on">Services</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType w:st="on">Center
</st1:placeType></st1:place><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">700 North Tryon St</st1:address></st1:Street>.

This seminar will cover the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Charlotte</st1:place></st1:City> region's best management practices for capture and containment of wash water and disposal of collected wash water. Representatives from Charlotte-Mecklenburg Storm Water Services and Charlotte-Mecklenburg Utilities will be on hand to discuss current regulations, enforcement and to answer questions.

View Flyer

View Agenda

For ordinance questions contact Craig Miller cmmiller@ci.charlotte.nc.us

To register contact Erin Oliverio erin.oliverio@mecklenburgcountync.gov

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Contractor Round Table following. For details, call Celeste 336-516-6356
 
UamccEPA.jpg


Can't put these two together...
 
Okay then, here goes. If water reclaim is being pushed down throats out west, it has to suck and I feel for you.But why in hell woud an orginazation that is supposed that to help the industry have anything to do with starting enforcement in a state that doesn'. I know that it is coming eventually, but let it come at it's own slow pace. Unions have never been beneficial, with the exception of shutting down the auto industry. Keep it out of the Carolinas please. Just my thoughts, that I have tried to keep to my self after being toldby many that I was off base and it would bring the industry together. I think I might have been right.
 
offdutyfireman said:
Okay then, here goes. If water reclaim is being pushed down throats out west, it has to suck and I feel for you.But why in hell woud an orginazation that is supposed that to help the industry have anything to do with starting enforcement in a state that doesn'. I know that it is coming eventually, but let it come at it's own slow pace. Unions have never been beneficial, with the exception of shutting down the auto industry. Keep it out of the Carolinas please. Just my thoughts, that I have tried to keep to my self after being toldby many that I was off base and it would bring the industry together. I think I might have been right.
Click to expand...

William,
This is being pushed on a federal level. The states and municipalities have to do something. Our industry is going to be affected. If we do nothing, then we deserve what we get. The industry has been invited to the table for discussion. It is our responsibilty to try and impact what the final rules are going to be.

I speak from experience when I say that the regulations end up much more tolerable when the people affected by them help craft them. We probably won't like what we end up with, but we would probably hate what we would get handed if we weren't there making our voice be heard.

As I was told by a local industry leader, "If you think that it's bad now, how much worse do you think it would be if there wasn't somebody standing up for the little guys rights?"

You can rest assured that the UAMCC did not go looking for someone to make a deal with. The UAMCC was contacted by the authorities and chose to participate rather than taking the approach of "Let someone else handle it".

I do understand your reluctance to get excited about new regulations, I really do. But they are coming. Our job is to minimize the crippling effect of those regulations as much as possible.

Sorry for the long winded post. I do hope it helps.
 
The UAMCC was invited to be a voice for the contractor community. Robert H advised Charlotte to have a period for comment and invite contractors to this. (This is the reason for the posts and invite) We have had some luck in explaining that tighter restrictions will only lead to non-compliance. There is headway being made to get these BMP's to a level that isn't quite taxing on a contractor. I agree with Ron that there should be a push for the buck to stop being passed on to us and keep it at the Building and development level. However, there are still the properties that are not sitting on drywells that the issue of run-off is still a threat to storm water. The Contractors need to voice thier concerns. The UAMCC is a voice for CONTRACTORS and needs to be present and help unite that voice. The biggest problem we as an industry face is that there is no unity within the industry. Some folks want no restrictions some folks want heavy restriction. Some folks want to say nothing and allow others to do all the talking. I personally want to be there to voice concerns as opposed to say an org like CETA in there pushing equipment or Carwash Association pushing for tighter regs. Wouldn't you all rather an ORG for CONTRACTORS be present?

We were invited and there has been lots of communication between Charlotte and UAMCC. We have helped them understand the issues we will face with thight regs and they are open to suggestions and are willing to listen.
 
Just as a reminder, the PWNC has already demonstrated the ability to handle things when it adversely affects contractors in the Carolinas, regardless of who is doing what they think is "best".

And while UAMCC and Robert have been working with Charlotte (not that Charlotte affects THEIR livelihood), the PWNC is working with several other entities across North Carolina - and have been since we made our mark during the drought - to ensure that proper BMP's are written and implemented.

Further, the PWNC has been asked to assist with this particular meeting - our part is to compile the questions to the "panel". Please please feel free to forward your questions to me via pm or email.

Also, as mentioned earlier - THERE WILL BE A MEETING FOR CAROLINAS CONTRACTORS immediately following this thing. Call for the address and secret handshake and password to attend :)
 
I see the point about not raising a flag but it won't work. It's happening around here. There are government agencies just chomping at the bit to justify their existence especially with the economy like it is. They all attend national seminars about all types of actual or perceived problems. "Green" environmental issues are hot and an easy sell to the public.

You can wait until the locals step in with regulations that make no sense or try to provide some guidance that make sense. Ultimately some companies will make money selling recovery equipment. Let's face it the more costly it is to do this work the more we can charge and the less competition we will have as others drop out. Good or bad it's the reality of the situation.

I've seen some of the gunk parking garage Jim recovers in his specialty and can see the need not to run that stuff down the storm sewers. But I think that for the majority of what we do recovery is nonsense. Most does not "reach waters of the United States." and there are no requirements.

I appreciate the efforts of any organization that is trying to provide reasonable and effective guidance before the know nothing government officials step in and create another mess. Undoing that would require much more effort.
 
Be there!

We went through this in our area, and many of the then active PWNA members attended the meetings to help the county develop the plan. It was wise they did. As stated previously, they would have just regulated without much concern to the contractor. Both sides came away with a better understanding of the other sides wants/needs/issues, and as a result, a better plan was developed benefiting both. I encourage ALL contractors to attend a meeting like this. It's amazing how little is known about what our industry does. Your government does not always know how well we manage our water already and how much we actully use. We all want clean drinking water, and this is an attempt to protect that. Manufacturers and distributors are reacting to this by being prepared for you, not pushing it so they can sell more equipment. Like it or not, these regs will be everywhere, oh wait, they already are. The 1972 Clean Water act already says nothing in the storm drains but rain - nationally. Not well enforced, but techniquely already out there. So this really isn't new, just being taken to a higher level. Attend these meetings and help set your regulations so you are not regulated right out of work!
 
Timothy said:
William,
This is being pushed on a federal level. The states and municipalities have to do something. Our industry is going to be affected. If we do nothing, then we deserve what we get. The industry has been invited to the table for discussion. It is our responsibilty to try and impact what the final rules are going to be.

I speak from experience when I say that the regulations end up much more tolerable when the people affected by them help craft them. We probably won't like what we end up with, but we would probably hate what we would get handed if we weren't there making our voice be heard.

As I was told by a local industry leader, "If you think that it's bad now, how much worse do you think it would be if there wasn't somebody standing up for the little guys rights?"

You can rest assured that the UAMCC did not go looking for someone to make a deal with. The UAMCC was contacted by the authorities and chose to participate rather than taking the approach of "Let someone else handle it".

I do understand your reluctance to get excited about new regulations, I really do. But they are coming. Our job is to minimize the crippling effect of those regulations as much as possible.

Sorry for the long winded post. I do hope it helps.
Click to expand...

(Added paragraph - I missed the Alabama RT and was unaware that Robert has been working on in inexpensive reclaim system for guys who don't have the accounts or the cash flow to go all out like some of the larger operators. Being a Nevadan, I'm always suspicious of anyone who can make a dime off of regulations one way or the other (since most of our city council members are incarcerated right now) and so I spoke with that mindset before I knew the facts. I left my ignorant post intact below so you guys can see that if you were thinking the way I was thinking, you might want to call Robert or get some more information on what he's doing before inserting foot in mouth like me.





Tim, this is a very logical argument until you consider that in Texas, where our industry has had a big part in "fighting for our rights" - the result has been some of the most restrictive laws in the country!

Is that coincidence? Is it on purpose? Is it just ineffective arguments on our part? Is this fight just too big of a hill for us to climb? I don't know the answer to these questions.

How is it that Texas now surpasses California in some of their restrictions while we've had an advocate in our corner there for years? Is it possible for a representive that sells reclaim equipment (Robert), or works on a large, expensive scale (Jim Gamble) to optimally understand and represent the guy who owns one 5 GPM machine and cleans a few sidewalks?

Reclaim is expensive and in the end it is WE who will shoulder the cost burden because the general public won't stand for the gouging. Compare concrete cleaning charges here in Las Vegas vs Houston. They are nearly the same. But I don't have to purchase and run all that extra equipment here! When the regs come, it is only the CONTRACTOR who will shoulder the burden. Jim has had some success raising the bar in pricing, but even he will tell you that now that the economy is slowing, the burden is already shifting back to him.

Purchasing studies that refute tree-hugger claims might be a good move on our part. It worked to dispel the global warming myth.

These are valid questions that need to be considered before we, as an industry decide the direction we need to pursue.
 
Tony Shelton said:
Tim, this is a very logical argument until you consider that in Texas, where our industry has had a big part in "fighting for our rights" - the result has been some of the most restrictive laws in the country!

Is that coincidence? Is it on purpose? Is it just ineffective arguments on our part? Is this fight just too big of a hill for us to climb? I don't know the answer to these questions.

How is it that Texas now surpasses California in some of their restrictions while we've had an advocate in our corner there for years? Is it possible for a representive that sells reclaim equipment (Robert), or works on a large, expensive scale (Jim Gamble) to optimally understand and represent the guy who owns one 5 GPM machine and cleans a few sidewalks?

Reclaim is expensive and in the end it is WE who will shoulder the cost burden because the general public won't stand for the gouging. Compare concrete cleaning charges here in Las Vegas vs Houston. They are nearly the same. But I don't have to purchase and run all that extra equipment here! When the regs come, it is only the CONTRACTOR who will shoulder the burden. Jim has had some success raising the bar in pricing, but even he will tell you that now that the economy is slowing, the burden is already shifting back to him.

Purchasing studies that refute tree-hugger claims might be a good move on our part. It worked to dispel the global warming myth.

These are valid questions that need to be considered before we, as an industry decide the direction we need to pursue.
Click to expand...

Tony I appreciate your stance but that is far from the truth any longer, In fact the three R's describe what Mr Hinderliter teaches = reasonable, rational and responsible. I will allow Mr Hinderliter to step in and explain in detail on that but it is what they are trying to do. In fact Mr Hinderliter showed us ways in Alabama where you can become compliant for just a few hundered bucks, Things have changed in the last little bit, it is intresting and not always expensive.
 
I do understand none of us like to be force fed anything but this is already the law and has been the law, we can not be ignorant to the law and it be acceptable either.

We need to learn how to stand up and have a say in how the laws are interprited, this is a great oppertunity for those in that area to insure that the law is in fact interprited like it should be, you need to take time to educate your self so that you will have a better understanding of what they are talking about so that you can defend your self w/o looking like an ass.
 
Russ Spence said:
Tony I appreciate your stance but that is far from the truth any longer, In fact the three R's describe what Mr Hinderliter teaches = reasonable, rational and responsible. I will allow Mr Hinderliter to step in and explain in detail on that but it is what they are trying to do. In fact Mr Hinderliter showed us ways in Alabama where you can become compliant for just a few hundered bucks, Things have changed in the last little bit, it is intresting and not always expensive.
Click to expand...

You're right Russ, I just read Larry's other thread and thanked them for working towards cheaper methods for the little guy.

I'm going to fix my post above. :eek:

I've listened to all of Robert's youtube videos and it looked like we, as an industry are losing all ground in Texas.

Texas is probably like here, Everybody from California moves here because they don't like California and all the taxes and regs, then they immediately start destroying Vegas and trying to turn it into California. :cool:
 
I personally want to be there to voice concerns as opposed to say an org like CETA in there pushing equipment or Carwash Association pushing for tighter regs. Wouldn't you all rather an ORG for CONTRACTORS be present?
Click to expand...

Thats great, but the carwash and pressure cleaning industry on this issue is two different sides of the Scope....You cannot talk about them in the same place without confusing all.
 
Ron,
You need to remember that we automatically get lumped in a group. The regulators do not realize that most car detailers only use about 7 gallons a car for washing, and 12 if they dump their bucket every time. This is where the negotiation and education of the regulators comes in.
 
This meeting in Charlotte is going to be quite an opportunity for everyone involved. Further discussions will take place among the Carolinas contractors at the lunch afterward.

Please contact us for further information - also.....

If you have questions that you want to see presented, please email them to me as I am compiling a list for Craig prior to the Wash meeting. As well, I am starting to make the list for the contractor lunch. Email or call. Seems this is the top project of the day.

Celeste
info@pwnc.org
336-261-3051 (this is a land line - better connection than the cell phones!)
 
The Driving Force:

In May of 2008 the EPA announced that all municipalities and urban areas will have their environmental regulations and ordinances reviewed in detail within the next seven years. Part of this in depth audit includes regulations, ordinances, and BMPs concerning Cosmetic Cleaning which includes pressure power washing. All municipalities over 100,000 populations will have their audits completed in the next 5 years. This action is forcing a review and implementation of these ordinances.

Charlotte is a Phase I Municipality and is under review at the federal level.
 
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