Lpg?
- Thread starter mikey
- Start date
Michael
New member
Here in Canada we sell a large number of propane pressure washers simply because LP is cheaper than diesel and nearly as available and convenient to get.
There are some advantages to using LP...
-lower or no fumes compared to diesel/kerosene
-lower maintenance due to fewer moving parts; no blower motor or fuel pump required
-slightly lower total emissions due to more complete combustion
-potentially a single fuel if the unit is built properly (please see my post in the manufacturers' section)
-lower total noise levels; a natural draft coil is virtually silent, potentially letting you work later or closer to residential areas with fewer complaints
-safety; almost everyone has hooked up and used a propane BBQ
-there are literally thousands of LP forklifts, police cars, delivery vehicles etcetera in plants or on the road
-depending on area potentially lower operating costs versus diesel/kerosene
However,
-not everyone can fill the tanks; you must be licenced in almost any jurisdiction
-Federally mandated OPD-valves restrict flow on tanks smaller than 40#
-potential freeze hazard if the surface area of the tank(s) is not sized for the fuel flow requirements
-transporting propane over the road requires DoT certification of both the vehicle and location
-fuel availability is variable, again depending on geography
-cost of components can be higher (depending on the components)
Epps does manufacture a pressure washer that uses a propane engine that is CARB and EPA certified complete with a full factory warranty and a propane fired burner. Contact your local dealer for details.
There are some advantages to using LP...
-lower or no fumes compared to diesel/kerosene
-lower maintenance due to fewer moving parts; no blower motor or fuel pump required
-slightly lower total emissions due to more complete combustion
-potentially a single fuel if the unit is built properly (please see my post in the manufacturers' section)
-lower total noise levels; a natural draft coil is virtually silent, potentially letting you work later or closer to residential areas with fewer complaints
-safety; almost everyone has hooked up and used a propane BBQ
-there are literally thousands of LP forklifts, police cars, delivery vehicles etcetera in plants or on the road
-depending on area potentially lower operating costs versus diesel/kerosene
However,
-not everyone can fill the tanks; you must be licenced in almost any jurisdiction
-Federally mandated OPD-valves restrict flow on tanks smaller than 40#
-potential freeze hazard if the surface area of the tank(s) is not sized for the fuel flow requirements
-transporting propane over the road requires DoT certification of both the vehicle and location
-fuel availability is variable, again depending on geography
-cost of components can be higher (depending on the components)
Epps does manufacture a pressure washer that uses a propane engine that is CARB and EPA certified complete with a full factory warranty and a propane fired burner. Contact your local dealer for details.
Dave Olson
Workin North of 60
Hello Mikey,
Our Lp fueled system was set up over 30 years ago. We have been running this system for over half of that time! We like it.
Chassis has a gasoline engine (427 ci).
The only thing in this picture that is over thirty years old is the vanbody (box) and we had to modify it (roof extension) to fit the larger genset in!
We have duel 90 gallon water capacity Lp tanks. This gives us about 140 gallons of usable fuel. We used smaller diameter tanks so we could fit the crew cab over them. Filling the tanks is not a problem for us, we self fill at our local distributor 24/7.
We gutted the interior of this box a little over a year ago. Installed new cross-members, floor, walls. Also put in a new stainless main water tank (1000 gallons), and a new Whitco 980,000 Btu Lp boiler (on the left side of this picture).
The only thing that is over thirty years old in the back of our truck is the base that our Wheatley pump sits on and the power-end of the pump! We replaced the fluid-end during this upgrade.
We had this unit inside a local plant just last week. Michael is right, does not make very much noise and hardly any fumes.
Dave Olson
Our Lp fueled system was set up over 30 years ago. We have been running this system for over half of that time! We like it.
Chassis has a gasoline engine (427 ci).
We have duel 90 gallon water capacity Lp tanks. This gives us about 140 gallons of usable fuel. We used smaller diameter tanks so we could fit the crew cab over them. Filling the tanks is not a problem for us, we self fill at our local distributor 24/7.
We had this unit inside a local plant just last week. Michael is right, does not make very much noise and hardly any fumes.
Dave Olson
Kendra
Member
OK, here is another one of my soapboxes....
Yes, LPG is cleaner than Diesel or Kerosene. BUT, have you ever heard of BioDiesel?
It is FAR more environmentally safe, and it is NOT a petroleum product. It will perfectly replace Diesel or Kerosene. Without any modifications. If you have any other questions, either email me, or post them here. I can refer you to a billion web sites about Bio Diesel. It is also less expensive than LPG or CNG.
Yes, LPG is cleaner than Diesel or Kerosene. BUT, have you ever heard of BioDiesel?
It is FAR more environmentally safe, and it is NOT a petroleum product. It will perfectly replace Diesel or Kerosene. Without any modifications. If you have any other questions, either email me, or post them here. I can refer you to a billion web sites about Bio Diesel. It is also less expensive than LPG or CNG.
Scott Stone
New member
Kendra,
Is the bio diesel cheaper than regular diesel?? and what kind of quantities does it have to be bought in? Along with that, what are the long term effects on a diesel engine, and a diesel burner?
Scott
Is the bio diesel cheaper than regular diesel?? and what kind of quantities does it have to be bought in? Along with that, what are the long term effects on a diesel engine, and a diesel burner?
Scott
Kendra
Member
Unfortunately, Bio Diesel isn't as cheap as regular diesel. It is however, the least expensive alternative fuel.
The quantity requirements depend on logistics. For you Scott, there are a bunch of gas stations popping up that carry Bio Diesel right at the pump. There are two Bio Diesel manufacturers that have their main offices there in Pheonix, so there is a greater influence in one area.
If you are shipping in Drums, it does get costly. But again the location it is being shipped to and from will determine the costs.
The long term affects are great. All the major Diesel Manufaturers have accepted it as a replacement for Diesel engines. Cat, Detroit, Cummins, etc. You end up with better lubricity, an increase in Cetane and horsepower, and a decrease in overall maintenance. The Bio Diesel acts like a mild solvent. It will clean all of the build up out of the system. Th only thing different between running the Bio Diesel and straight diesel, is that you have to change out your fuel filters in the first month of running Bio Diesel. Simply because it cleans the engine and the tanks. One well known test was performed on a 1995 Dodge cummins diesel, and run for 100,000 miles. At the end of the test, they broke the entire engine down, and the inside of the engine was spotless. So, they put it back together and kept going. He is now at 150,000 miles and still running great!
Needless to say the biggest benefits are the emission reductions. No black smoke, no noxious fumes, and it does meet/ exceed the EPA regulations. It is also a RENEWABLE fuel. Not a petroleum product. It is grown domestically, manufacturered domestically, and all of the money stays here at home.
I could go on forever, so if I missed anything let me know. But here was your first lesson in Bio Diesel 101!!
The quantity requirements depend on logistics. For you Scott, there are a bunch of gas stations popping up that carry Bio Diesel right at the pump. There are two Bio Diesel manufacturers that have their main offices there in Pheonix, so there is a greater influence in one area.
If you are shipping in Drums, it does get costly. But again the location it is being shipped to and from will determine the costs.
The long term affects are great. All the major Diesel Manufaturers have accepted it as a replacement for Diesel engines. Cat, Detroit, Cummins, etc. You end up with better lubricity, an increase in Cetane and horsepower, and a decrease in overall maintenance. The Bio Diesel acts like a mild solvent. It will clean all of the build up out of the system. Th only thing different between running the Bio Diesel and straight diesel, is that you have to change out your fuel filters in the first month of running Bio Diesel. Simply because it cleans the engine and the tanks. One well known test was performed on a 1995 Dodge cummins diesel, and run for 100,000 miles. At the end of the test, they broke the entire engine down, and the inside of the engine was spotless. So, they put it back together and kept going. He is now at 150,000 miles and still running great!
Needless to say the biggest benefits are the emission reductions. No black smoke, no noxious fumes, and it does meet/ exceed the EPA regulations. It is also a RENEWABLE fuel. Not a petroleum product. It is grown domestically, manufacturered domestically, and all of the money stays here at home.
I could go on forever, so if I missed anything let me know. But here was your first lesson in Bio Diesel 101!!
PressureClean
New member
Somehow I don't see us going the route of cleaner burning anything for years. Out here in Western PA, the EPA doesn't like us very much because everybody resists nearly every attempt at their pollution control measures because we remember what the area used to be like when we had steel mills, so now it's very clean around here compared to the past. So bottom line diesel is cheaper and diesel is the way we go because of that. Generally even if we wanted to go cleaner our competition is going to take advantage of our higher overhead by undercutting us and our customers could care less how we power or heat our equipment. So we're between a rock and a hard place when it comes to most of this kind of stuff. It all comes down to cost.
Michael
New member
As to the efficacy of BioDeisel, VW has been running a BioDiesel Cup race series with TDI New Beetles for a few years now in Germany with close racing and lots of fun.
There are lots of internet resources for BioDiesel available and as stated it is an extremely viable alternative to #2 diesel or kerosene. However, current pricing is approximately twice that of regular diesel and the production facilites are just now coming on-line.
Most all of them use either waste oil/grease from restaurants and soybeans. Or any other oil bearing seed. It is incorrect to say they are not petroleum based as petroleum is essentially a long chain carbon polymer just like any vegetable oil.
You can also produce it from hemp as an entrepreneur has proven by driving a hemp oil fueled M-B wagon across North America this past year. Here in Canada hemp is a legal crop and can provide everything from clothing to paper, cosmetics, D-C dashboards for mini-vans, oil, fuel etcetera.
Alternatives are merely that at present. LP is viable as a replacement for diesel simply because it is commonly available and well distributed.
There are lots of internet resources for BioDiesel available and as stated it is an extremely viable alternative to #2 diesel or kerosene. However, current pricing is approximately twice that of regular diesel and the production facilites are just now coming on-line.
Most all of them use either waste oil/grease from restaurants and soybeans. Or any other oil bearing seed. It is incorrect to say they are not petroleum based as petroleum is essentially a long chain carbon polymer just like any vegetable oil.
You can also produce it from hemp as an entrepreneur has proven by driving a hemp oil fueled M-B wagon across North America this past year. Here in Canada hemp is a legal crop and can provide everything from clothing to paper, cosmetics, D-C dashboards for mini-vans, oil, fuel etcetera.
Alternatives are merely that at present. LP is viable as a replacement for diesel simply because it is commonly available and well distributed.
Kendra
Member
The current price for Bio Diesel minus taxes is about $1.85 per gallon right now.
The production levels are increasing as quickly as the demand. THe most common form of Bio Diesel made is produced from SoyBeans. Recyled is another option, but in major production has not been as consistent in quality.
My understanding has been that the most common form of Bio Diesel is made with Methanol, which is what causes the petroleum base. The other forms of Bio Diesel made with Ethanol, are not petro derivatives. Methanol itself is made from Petroleum derivatives.
The Methanol, or Methyl Esters, is also what has been shown to increase the Nitrous Oxides.
Ethanol, or Ethyl Esters, will not increase the Nitrous Oxides. It remains NOx nuetral.
3 out of the 4 mass production plants right now have been operating for about the last 30 years. Manufacturing Bio Diesel from lots of different feedstocks. The approximate production in the US right now, is 10 Million gallons per year. This is just the current production from these manufacturers. THere are lots of other backyard, and smaller operations across the US.
The production levels are increasing as quickly as the demand. THe most common form of Bio Diesel made is produced from SoyBeans. Recyled is another option, but in major production has not been as consistent in quality.
My understanding has been that the most common form of Bio Diesel is made with Methanol, which is what causes the petroleum base. The other forms of Bio Diesel made with Ethanol, are not petro derivatives. Methanol itself is made from Petroleum derivatives.
The Methanol, or Methyl Esters, is also what has been shown to increase the Nitrous Oxides.
Ethanol, or Ethyl Esters, will not increase the Nitrous Oxides. It remains NOx nuetral.
3 out of the 4 mass production plants right now have been operating for about the last 30 years. Manufacturing Bio Diesel from lots of different feedstocks. The approximate production in the US right now, is 10 Million gallons per year. This is just the current production from these manufacturers. THere are lots of other backyard, and smaller operations across the US.
Great threads