Board and Environmental Committee to vote on proposed BMPs

Tony Shelton · Mar 29, 2011

This is some kind of joke right?

Looks like somebody's a little big for their britches.

All the sudden the PWNA gets a few members and now they're going to "set" the bmp standards and then AFTERWARDS let us know what those standards are?

Ron, you lined their pockets with members. It's time to deplete them.

I'll be the first. I'm done with them.

William. I knew you were right, I just held out hope that you were wrong.

Ron Musgraves · Mar 29, 2011

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1792230115#!/profile.php?id=1439280405

The presidents facebook

PWNA HQ said:
 <m:smallfrac m:val="off"> <m:dispdef> <m:lmargin m:val="0"> <m:rmargin m:val="0"> <m:defjc m:val="centerGroup"> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440"> <m:intlim m:val="subSup"> <m:narylim m:val="undOvr"> </m:narylim></m:intlim> </m:wrapindent>The PWNA Board of Directors along with the Environmental Committee will have a follow up call this Wednesday 3/30/11 to vote on the proposed BMPs. We will update you as to the result of that call.</m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac>

Ron Musgraves · Mar 29, 2011

http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/member.php?7740-Mike-Hilborn

There ya go, Mike H private message

PWNA HQ said:
 <m:smallfrac m:val="off"> <m:dispdef> <m:lmargin m:val="0"> <m:rmargin m:val="0"> <m:defjc m:val="centerGroup"> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440"> <m:intlim m:val="subSup"> <m:narylim m:val="undOvr"> </m:narylim></m:intlim> </m:wrapindent>The PWNA Board of Directors along with the Environmental Committee will have a follow up call this Wednesday 3/30/11 to vote on the proposed BMPs. We will update you as to the result of that call.</m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac>

Tony Shelton · Mar 29, 2011

Look, for anyone who thinks I over reacted. Here's the deal:

We are not polluters.

We clean things. We remove dangerous grease and algae. We reduce human dangers of slips and falls. We reduce airborne dust by wetting it down and putting it down the drain just like mother nature does when it cleans the air with a rainstorm.

Garbage trucks put out a lot of pollution. If we eliminated all garbage trucks we could get rid of a good percentage of air pollution. But at what cost???????

Snow plows pollute, even nature itself takes all the surface pollutants and washes them into the streams just like it always has.

But there is a common sense trade off that has to be made. Otherwise we would be neck deep in snow and garbage....and grease.

The PWNA has learned nothing from the UAMCC fiasco about representation. They are going to "vote" on something that might affect the entire industry without even checking with the membership first. And the membership is such a small representation of the industry at this point they don't have any business voting on ANYTHING about this industry.

They have all the right in the world to make noise as long as the noise is in full 100% support of the contractors. The only way they can do that is by making noise declaring that we need to be EXEMPT because we perform a necessary service to the community that CANNOT be performed efficiently with the shackles of MOBILE RECOVERY.

There are hundreds of exemptions to the CWA. Concrete companies (where concrete is made, mixed, etc) is highly regulated by the CWA, yet when concrete is laid the construction company rinses it off and washes it down the storm drain through a simple sock to catch debris. Why is it that the construction companies are allowed to do this and we are treated like environmental criminals? That's the question the PWNA should be asking. We need to stop the insertion completely instead of arguing about "how far do we need to bend before you insert".

The CWA was not meant for us. It was meant for point source polluters like the concrete plants that continuously pump the same contaminants into the same streams day after day. The local governments have twisted it to make it a cash cow.

I know most of you guys think I'm a nutcase for even considering the idea that one day we, as an industry will be able to responsibly run our runoff and diluted and/or neutralized chemicals right down the storm drain. But the same people who think I'm a nutcase can't deny the power of true representation. When was the last time you took off 8 weeks with pay when your wife had a child? When was the last time you paid $14.00 per month for health insurance? When was the last time you got 35 days paid sick leave? When was the last time you worked 2 days in a week getting double time for those two days while taking 5 days vacation during the same week? You've never done that?????? Why not? Here's why - because you've never had representation that puts you first and puts the power in your hands like the unions have. What I just described is what our fire department has been doing for the past 15 years due to collective bargaining. All that may have sounded outlandish and like a "nutcase" 15 years ago, but today it's reality due to consistency in representation.

The PWNA is not consistent in representation of us. The PWNA thus far has taken a position of:

1) Yes, we are polluters
2) Yes, we can do our jobs effectively with zero discharge
and
3) Yes, we are willing to do whatever you say.

Due to the first two lies, we are being force to accept #3.

That's not representation in my book. At least not for the contractors. It's pretty good representation for the guys who make all that enviromental R2D2 vacuum junk for the purpose of "protecting the environment" though.

Go ahead and sell out the contractor. I will be right behind you writing letters about how much that extra vacuum motor has doubled the air pollution. Maybe I should start up a catalytic converter company for small engines and enlist the PWNA to help me sell it.

See, it never ends unless you stand up and quit bending over.

End of Rant.

Christopher · Mar 29, 2011

Great post Tony!

I hope that the PWNA did not just shoot themselves in the foot with this "voting" thing.

Great point about the uamcc fiasco, scam, con and b.s. they fed and lied to their members then the main conman left with the cash at the end, what a shame.

I hope that the PWNA reads these posts and cancels their "vote" as it could cause a huge decline in membership and renewals.

You are right, the guys on the bbs's are anywhere from 5% to maybe 10% of all the contractors in the country, most either are too busy to spend time here or just don't know about the bbs's so that they can see what is happening but I would bet that if they knew what happened in Houston they sure would not want any organization to speak for them until they knew what that organization was about to say or vote to talk about.

It is all about being transparent to the members and community, with a "vote" out there, where is the transparency before the vote?

Where is the info that they are going to "vote" about so that their members know?

Why the secrecy about the info that they will "Vote" about?

Why not disclose what the "vote" is about so their members will know what they are "voting" about?

It just does not look right to me without letting the members know what they are doing before voting on it.

Ron Musgraves · Mar 29, 2011

I guess you didnt see Daves Electric set up that only cost 65 bucks, he also ran it off his already clean buring alternative fuel power plant.

Whats interesting is that maybe Dave & Cyclone are onto something.

Tony Shelton said:
Look, for anyone who thinks I over reacted. Here's the deal:

We are not polluters.

We clean things. We remove dangerous grease and algae. We reduce human dangers of slips and falls. We reduce airborne dust by wetting it down and putting it down the drain just like mother nature does when it cleans the air with a rainstorm.

Garbage trucks put out a lot of pollution. If we eliminated all garbage trucks we could get rid of a good percentage of air pollution. But at what cost???????

Snow plows pollute, even nature itself takes all the surface pollutants and washes them into the streams just like it always has.

But there is a common sense trade off that has to be made. Otherwise we would be neck deep in snow and garbage....and grease.

The PWNA has learned nothing from the UAMCC fiasco about representation. They are going to "vote" on something that might affect the entire industry without even checking with the membership first. And the membership is such a small representation of the industry at this point they don't have any business voting on ANYTHING about this industry.

They have all the right in the world to make noise as long as the noise is in full 100% support of the contractors. The only way they can do that is by making noise declaring that we need to be EXEMPT because we perform a necessary service to the community that CANNOT be performed efficiently with the shackles of MOBILE RECOVERY.

There are hundreds of exemptions to the CWA. Concrete companies (where concrete is made, mixed, etc) is highly regulated by the CWA, yet when concrete is laid the construction company rinses it off and washes it down the storm drain through a simple sock to catch debris. Why is it that the construction companies are allowed to do this and we are treated like environmental criminals? That's the question the PWNA should be asking. We need to stop the insertion completely instead of arguing about "how far do we need to bend before you insert".

The CWA was not meant for us. It was meant for point source polluters like the concrete plants that continuously pump the same contaminants into the same streams day after day. The local governments have twisted it to make it a cash cow.

I know most of you guys think I'm a nutcase for even considering the idea that one day we, as an industry will be able to responsibly run our runoff and diluted and/or neutralized chemicals right down the storm drain. But the same people who think I'm a nutcase can't deny the power of true representation. When was the last time you took off 8 weeks with pay when your wife had a child? When was the last time you paid $14.00 per month for health insurance? When was the last time you got 35 days paid sick leave? When was the last time you worked 2 days in a week getting double time for those two days while taking 5 days vacation during the same week? You've never done that?????? Why not? Here's why - because you've never had representation that puts you first and puts the power in your hands like the unions have. What I just described is what our fire department has been doing for the past 15 years due to collective bargaining. All that may have sounded outlandish and like a "nutcase" 15 years ago, but today it's reality due to consistency in representation.

The PWNA is not consistent in representation of us. The PWNA thus far has taken a position of:

1) Yes, we are polluters
2) Yes, we can do our jobs effectively with zero discharge
and
3) Yes, we are willing to do whatever you say.

Due to the first two lies, we are being force to accept #3.

That's not representation in my book. At least not for the contractors. It's pretty good representation for the guys who make all that enviromental R2D2 vacuum junk for the purpose of "protecting the environment" though.

Go ahead and sell out the contractor. I will be right behind you writing letters about how much that extra vacuum motor has doubled the air pollution. Maybe I should start up a catalytic converter company for small engines and enlist the PWNA to help me sell it.

See, it never ends unless you stand up and quit bending over.

End of Rant.

Ron Musgraves · Mar 29, 2011

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Carolina Prowash · Mar 29, 2011

I'm almost scared to stick my head back out here...... I do not agree with what the PWNA is doing. While I don't feel that what I was trying to get the PWNC involved with is the same, I can see where some being in the dark was a little more than an irritant.

All I know is that when contractors can get on the same page, with the same goals - we can be a powerful force and I believe in my gut, that we CONTRACTORS can fix the mess that non-contractors are setting in place or prevent it if we coordinate quickly enough.

Ron Musgraves · Mar 29, 2011

Guys they have been working on this for a lifetime.

The PWNA is listening, maybe they could send members a copy of the proposed BMp

Tony Shelton · Mar 29, 2011

You guys (meaning contractors) have given up before the fight. That's part of the problem.

"A lie told often enough becomes truth" - Vladimir Lenin.

Nothing down the drain but rainNothing down the drain but rainNothing down the drain but rainNothing down the drain but rain

"What reclaim are you using to comply to keep our environment safe?"

That's like asking "When did you stop beating your wife?"

It assumes that you are doing something wrong in the first place.

That is not the case with our cleaning. We are small MOBILE contract cleaners. We are not steadily pumping pollution into the waterways.

Putting any kind of restrictions at all on the vast majority of our industry is the equivalent of requiring catalytic converters on every cigarette lighter! It's utterly ridiculous and somebody with gonads and some juice (an org for example) needs to stand up and say it!

Pollution? Somehow I don't think 10,000 of us cleaning at night all over the country with our thin 5 inch wide line of diluted water running down the street has anything to do with real pollution:

Tony Shelton · Mar 29, 2011

One more thing to add -

There's another component to this problem. It's the contractors who had some leftover money during the boom times who was hoodwinked into buying a crapload of vacuum cleaners. They were somehow convinced that this made them morally superior to all the other "hacks" who didn't use this modified carpet cleaning POS.

Now, those same contractors can't stand the idea that all that money was wasted for no reason while the vacuums sit virtually unused. So they sit back and scheme up ways to get into the local governments to convince them that this cobweb laden sucking machine needs to be used so they don't feel like such morons for wasting their money.

Well, Mr contractor, it's time to suck it up for the good of the whole industry. I paid around 10k for my first Pressure washer that was probably worth about $3400. Live and learn. Move on. We all make mistakes. Don't destroy the industry because of your stupid pride!

(NOTE: I'm not talking about guys who bought reclaim to use to speed up their work and use them on a regular basis for that purpose. There is a legitimate use for vacuum equipment for situations where vacuuming can help with the work. I use vacuums myself to manage runoff amounts to eliminate flooding. There are legitimate uses for the equipment, SAVING THE ENVIRONMENT IS NOT ONE OF THEM.)

Kory · Mar 29, 2011

Tony you crack me up. I am glad you are around to speak your mind and get people thinking outside of the box and see threw the propaganda. I may not always agree but I usually do. Why not just ban the problem ban all oil and grease. Let's not punish the solution let's punish the problem.

Rob Huffman · Mar 29, 2011

I just got back and saw this. Tony you are a funny dude.

Onething is for sure, you are good at making people think. Hopefully contractors will start asking questions about this. I talked with a client for a fast food chain today and he said another contractor stopped by and gave him a quote. This contractor explained that they have reclaim units. And that they can use HARSHER chemicals because they can reclaim them...LOL. And that they can use their dirty water more than once so it can save him money....LOL. I asked him what the quote was and it was 75$ more than mine. I explained to my client how he is happy with saving 75$ and its amazing that its all because I use a sump pump to divert...LOL. I asked him if the contractor said he used biodegradable detergents too. He said as a matter of fact. I explained to him how his house and anything else is biodegradable after a long enough period...

Christopher · Mar 30, 2011

That is a good one Rob, we all are biodegradable given enough time. hahahahaha

It would be nice for an organization to propose some common sense, show that the contractors know what they are doing, show that we are helping the environment, etc..... Show them that we are not "ENVIRONMENTAL CRIMINALS" Like what Houston is promoting about pressure cleaners.

One of the things that really should be done is get leaky cars off the street. I know that there are a lot of poor families that probably cannot afford to replace the rear main seals, oil pan gaskets, transmission seals, differential gaskets/seals, etc.... so the Government should subsidize this for a short time to help get the leaky cars fixed and then I believe you would get rid of about 70% of the oil sheens that end up in creeks, rivers, streams and bays when it rains.

This would cost the government a lot of money but it would give mechanics a lot of work but they would have to guarantee their work. It would immediately reduce the oil that ends up in the water. It would probably not create jobs but give shops a lot more work which eventually might create more jobs so the mechanics would benefit, the shops would benefit, the car dealerships would benefit so it helps a small niche.

The business owners could be subsidized a little bit because it would take the vehicle off the road for a day or so to get the leaks fixed so that is money that they are not making but maybe help them out with part of the repair cost and help them a little bit with a rental.

I know that this sounds a little bit odd but if you think about it, this would get rid of most of the oil sheens in the water very quickly but then we need to keep the vehicles maintained and when they start leaking get them fixed to help the environment stay clean.

The oil spots on driveways.....that is a whole other issue because the stains will not come out completely but we can clean them so they are better and use the specialty chemicals like the BT200 to help. This would help on commercial parking lots also, just not that great on asphalt, asphalt is another issue by itself.

Asphalt will release a sheen after it is poured for sometimes as long as weeks or a month since it is made from crude oil processing.

There are many things that can be done to protect our water systems, fining and ticketing pressure washing contractors out of existence is not only the wrong answer but the answer that will lead to more filthy environments, serious health issues and allergy issues to say the least. People need to start using common sense and talk to the contractors that know what they are doing, not listen to "experts on paper" or manufacturers selling equipment.

Ok, enough for now.

Tony Shelton · Mar 30, 2011

Chris, how much oil can a car possibly leak? That leaky car takes kids to school. It takes families to outings, doctor appointments, to work, etc. It's pure insanity to try to legislate normal human progress into extinction. The pollution that fouls lakes and streams doesn't come from small sources like that. You were on the right track when you were talking about the asphalt.

We've got a bidet. Sure cuts down on toilet paper use. Imagine how many millions of tons of toilet paper goes into the sewer system each year. The toilet paper companies have a lot more money than the bidet companies do and they won't even let governments hint at reductions in toilet paper use as being a sustainable solution.

I'm facing the same thing with my filters. The throwaway filter companies have a perpetual cash cow as long as they silence people like me. If I didn't walk my talk I'd be lobbying the government right now to try to outlaw throwaway filters so they aren't filling our landfills with captured air pollution! But I won't play that card. It's immoral. It eliminates normal capitalistic competition and replaces it with government mandates. I don't need money that bad. I'll take my chances with hard work and outsmarting the competition.

As long as we keep looking at ourselves as an industry that pollutes the environment the battle is lost.

As long as allow immoral contractors and manufacturers who have no qualms about conspiring with the government to eliminate competition that they are too lame to beat otherwise by simply utilizing the long arm of the law the battle is lost.

I'm afraid too many contractors have fallen for it and lack self control to avoid the wrong path. There is only one path this can take. The government will start with small fees and threats of fines. Then the fees will get larger and larger as the contractors with the most money lobby more and more for tougher restrictions. The more accounts they get, the more money they have to eliminate you. One day it will turn and the over eager government will even eat the wealthy contractors with fee overload. At that point the market will dry up and cleaning will be extinct as we know it. That's the only path it can take.

JimFergerson · Mar 30, 2011

Wait a minute, now.

Isn't the asphalt on road beds and in parking lots surrounding Dry Wells and Storm Drains, Petroleum based?

And isn't the Seal Coat, Coal Tar based?

What are the chances of these contaminates ever making it down the drain when it rains?

Just a thought...

Don M. · Mar 30, 2011

This is sad...this is from their website.

The PWNA is an organization that represents power washing contractors in the Power Washing industry. We represent all power washers, from aerospace cleaning, concrete cleaning, fleet washing, kitchen exhaust, wood restoration as well as everything in between. Our purpose is to provide our members leadership and direction in four important areas:

I don't know about you, but they don't represent me.

Tony Shelton · Mar 30, 2011

The PWNA is fully funded by membership and a few wealthy contractors. There is no excuse for members getting more letters reminding them that their dues are coming due than informational mail throughout the entire year. There's no excuse for privately discussing and voting on BMP's that purport to be the consensus of the industry.

There's no excuse for offering up solutions that assume the majority of us are hack lawbreakers.

I donated money last year for this kind of "representation". Not this year.

They had a golden opportunity.

Ron Musgraves · Mar 30, 2011

Don I have to Argue with you, they absolutely do represent you. Because they direct your community in the direction of these BMP's.

The UAMCC respresents you also, the problem is these orgs have never had a true voice of the contractors because no one particpates.

This is the largest problem in the organization. Just saying

Don M. said:
This is sad...this is from their website.

The PWNA is an organization that represents power washing contractors in the Power Washing industry. We represent all power washers, from aerospace cleaning, concrete cleaning, fleet washing, kitchen exhaust, wood restoration as well as everything in between. Our purpose is to provide our members leadership and direction in four important areas:

I don't know about you, but they don't represent me.

Ron Musgraves · Mar 30, 2011

Tony Shelton said:
The PWNA is fully funded by membership and a few wealthy contractors. There is no excuse for members getting more letters reminding them that their dues are coming due than informational mail throughout the entire year. There's no excuse for privately discussing and voting on BMP's that purport to be the consensus of the industry.

There's no excuse for offering up solutions that assume the majority of us are hack lawbreakers.

I donated money last year for this kind of "representation". Not this year.

They had a golden opportunity.

You want some Cheese with that Wine?

Board and Environmental Committee to vote on proposed BMPs

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