History. We must teach it to our kids.

Tony Shelton

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
March 5, 1770 was a turning point for our nation. While the colonists were already uneasy about taxes and other rules they felt were oppressive. The redcoats had been brought in by the authority of that time to keep order.

Sound familiar?

The redcoats were abusive and they took a lot of abuse from the colonists.

Earlier, in February, a young man had been killed when a group of colonists surrounded a custom's employee's house and he fired into the crowd.

March 5 the crowd was angry. They hurled insults at the regulars and threw snowballs and other projectiles including sticks and clubs. Somehow one regular fired into the crowd of mostly men and 5 men eventually died.

This....was would later be called the Boston Massacre.

The Redcoats were tried and only two were found guilty. Strangely, the charges were reduced from Murder to Manslaughter because the men demonstrated that they had the ability to read from the Bible. But they were branded with an "M" on their thumbs to ensure that they never could have charges reduces in any future trials.

This trial would be referenced later in this manner in the declaration of Independence:

........For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

To read more about the Boston Massacre take a look here:

http://www.bookrags.com/research/boston-massacre-pamphlets-and-propa-aaw-01/

And for a more detailed account here:

http://www.archive.org/stream/shortnarrativeof00inbost/shortnarrativeof00inbost_djvu.txt

This event was the catalyst for the propaganda that led to the Revolutionary war.

Our ancestors were horrified at the idea that a "standing army" or the forces of the law could remain within their cities harassing them on every turn and enforcing laws that restricted their freedom.

Our children need to know that it wasn't always acceptable to have our movements restricted or to be physically abused by the authorities. We have become the proverbial frog in boiling water and accept any abuse that is put on us as long as we are deceived into believing they are just getting the "bad guys".

The patriots were once considered "the bad guys".

Our spirit has been stomped and beaten out of us. We have no idea what real freedom is today, the freedom our forefathers fought for.

Maybe we can instill it in our children through a thorough study of history and just maybe our children's generation will rise up with the courage that we lack and restore freedom to this nation.


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Chris, how about the freedom to travel the country with your family while armed for their protection. If you want to go to New York City or Chicago for business your family members are sitting ducks for criminals who assume you will arrive unarmed. The laws are so convoluted it's virtually impossible to drive the country without committing felony.

What about the freedom to move across the continent by air without having to be searched like a common criminal?

How about the freedom close your doors and do as you please in your own home with your self or your friends (drugs if you so desire......or an improvised worship service) as long as what you choose to do does not harm others?

How would you like to use your own land as you please, maybe drill for oil, or dig out a lake or dam a stream?

Seatbelts? How is our wearing a seatbelt any business of the government if not an excuse to pull people over and look for further "violations" or warrants or other minor infractions?

I'm sure there are some other patriots who can add more to these. If not, I'll go it alone and post many more.
 
apple said:
Nevermind I thought of a few. Some days I get the urge to hit the bottle, get behind the wheel and text while driving 80mph.

I don't do it because I'm sure id go to jail. You must be right. Lol!
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I don't do it because it's likely to cause harm to others. I really don't give a darn if it's against the law.
 
By the way that brings to mind a concept that seems to be forgotten in our society today.

It comes from I Timothy 1:8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

It should be very easy for a man or woman to remain within the law. If we go about our lives in a manner that does no harm to our neighbor there is no reason any of us should be considered lawbreakers. We shouldn't need to look over our shoulder and worry about "getting a ticket" or getting caught with some banned substance in our home or car.

A person who puts the rights of others first won't run stop signs. They won't go through red lights intentionally. They won't drive faster than their abilities and the abilities of their vehicle. They won't lie, cheat, steal, maim or kill.

And at the risk of being considered a further "extremist" I'm going to throw down another gauntlet. Any man who commits adultery with another man's wife deserves the harshest punishment society can give. I'd say it falls somewhere between grand theft and attempted murder in seriousness. Failure to dole out punishment for this crime is part of the reason our society is weak today.
 
apple said:
Tony, off the top of my head I can't think of anything that I want to do, but can't because of the government:
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I have about two weeks left to remove my dually truck from my driveway. it has no logos and is loaded with no equipment. If you didn't check the plates, it would look like any non commercial dually truck parked in driveways across the country.

In response to an email to the local government, asking why the width restriction of 84", they copied the police chief.

We are losing our rights slowly....it's not just at the national and state level, local governments are following the same trajectory.
 
The main reason we are losing more or our rights is our economic system. One of my favorite things to read are the essays of a gentleman named Martin Armstrong. He has insights to a lot of problems of today that many do not. You can find his essays at http://www.martinarmstrong.org/economic_projections.htm if you are interested. The topics are mainly about the economy, but he ties it in with other factors, especially the demise of our rights and the constitution. One main point of his is government will take away rights to suppress resistance to taxation. It's funny how history repeats itself.
 
If you are a man with a stay at home wife and two kids Obama has spent and is currently spending $8 per hour you work just to cover his daily spending.

What are we getting for that $8/hr?

TSA - molesting our families
EPA - molesting our businesses
BATF - keeping us in danger
DHS - detaining our citizens
FBI - killing dissidents

and the list goes on and on.

We are paying for millions of rounds of ammo to be used on us.
We are paying for millions of SUV's and Electric vehicles that just sit in storage to prop up GM.

What kind of crazy world do we live in where we pay to be beat down?
 
California has a ten round magazine limit.

The current administration is working towards limiting ammo sales and keeping records of all ammo sales.

How does that jive with our history? Well, let's take a look.

Setting: General Gage has just successfully seized the largest stockpile of gunpowder in New England.

From "Paul Revere's Ride"......

The people were caught entirely by surprise..........many people gave way to a wild panic that would long be remembered in New Englans=d as the Powder Alarm.

All that day church bells tolled in the towns......the militia began to march towards Boston......Early the next morning, Sept 2, 1774, McNeil set out for Boston. Afterward he wrote that "he never saw such a scene before. All along the road were armed men rushing forward-- some on foot, some on horseback. At every house women and children were making cartridges, running bullets, making wallets (pouches of food), baking biscuits, crying and bemoaning and at the same time animating their husbands and sons to fight for their liberties, though not knowing whether they should ever see them again..... They left scarcely half a dozen men in a town, unless old and decrepit and in one town the landlord told him that himself was the only man left.

So, as our government slowly disarms the population and makes ammo expensive and soon scarce......how are the pre-season games going?
 
Those who do not learn from past mistakes are doomed to repeat it......over and over and over
 
Tony, are you aware of other ways that this country is slowly dieing? For instance... In early versions of encyclopedias there is a recipe for gun powder. Try finding it in there now!

In the past the farmer grew all that he needed and then he was slowly turned into a slave for the big businessses.

In the beginning, the farmer used horses and mules. He raised his own feed for them and grew everything that he needed to survive and rarely bought anything and everything was sustainable. Then as things "progressed" the farmer bought a car to go to town. Now that farmer has to buy gas and parts and mortgage his future earnings. Then the farmer is convinced to purchase a tractor. Now there is no need for the mules and horses so the farmer sells them off. The problem comes when it is time for harvest. The farmer now has a surplus of feed and wants to sell some of it but can not because all of his neighbors raise their own feed. Now the farmer has a problem, what to plant next year. He decides to plant one crop so that he can sell to the factories all of his crops. This then leads to the depletion of the nutrients in the ground and the need for chemical fertilizers and genetically modified crops to get the production out of the ground. Now the farmer that was self sufficient is now dependant on corporate america to buy his crops and supply the fuel and parts for his car and tractor. This eventually worked to drive the family farm out of business to make room for the corporate farm.

I am not saying we should go back to horses and buggies nor that we will but this is a part of history that we need to learn and the reason for this happening.

The reason is patents. The tractor and car are protected by patents where the horse and mule could be created freely without the need for government or corporate businesses. This is what the government does not want people to get back to, being self sufficient. Why because if you can your own vegetables, the government can not tax it.
 
We are losing our liberty. It is no longer about democrat versus republican, liberal versus conservative. It is about how much more government intrusion you can have in your life and your business and still say you are free.
 
Omg Tony i think i am seeing some of your views the FBI was busted today and leaked where they had hacked into over 100,000 peoples i phones and ipads they were following them on facebook,emails,instant messages all without search warrants.These post get heated and we all dont agree but i tell you one damn thing it as opened my eyes on a few things.Everybody can learn from this.Big brother may be watching us for real.
 
Pat, you are so right.

Churches have always been a bastion of free speech, but now they have to register to keep their long standing tax free status and lose that status if they dare to speak out against the government.

Property is taken through imminent domain and given to private investors for development and a potential higher tax for the cities.

Hate speech???? What the heck is that? Speech has never taken a life or put anyone in the hospital.

Our kids can't mention God in school or even wear clothing that reflects their faith (unless they are muslim)

Nativity scenes in towns? No way!

Soon, if not already our taxes will be paying for abortions. They are already paying for sex changes in prisons.

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will
be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
James Madison, while a United States Congressman

"No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can
any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is
preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant,
and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own
weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders."

-- Samuel Adams


Hal, some things are more important than the government's ability to keep us "safe". We have given up the freedom to be left alone in exchange for an illusion of safety.

We are not all criminals.
 
Cry me a river. Only ten rounds per magazine. When the second ammendment was wrote, it took a minute (give or take) to load a freaking gun. The founding fathers were oblivious to the fact that a person now can kill ten people in the time they could have killed one. If I am wrong, please correct me.
 
Brian, if people were allowed to protect themselves then there is no way they would be able to kill 10 people. The police can not be everywhere all the time. Their job is not really to protect but to investigate and possibly arrest. The only time they protect is when they are actually on scene. Even then they have a hard time hitting the broad side of a square barn from the inside with a shotgun.

The other thing you have to think about is that even if there is a 10 round limit, are the criminals worried about that? They can also carry several clips fully loaded giving them 100 rounds or more on their person depending on how many clips that they have with them. So in actuality, the law is worthless because it only restricts the honest people and gives the supporters a false sense of security. The people that I know that carry legally have more than just the clip in the gun on them.

When the second ammendment was written, we also did not have cars or speed limits. Yet now we have cars that will do 150 mph plus. Even durring this time the weapons were being improved and upgraded to give the colonists an advantage over the British and the French. Longer range, rifling in the barrel etc. Many carried multiple firearms because of the reloading time. The ammendment gives all the right to keep and bare arms, it says nothing about not improving the firearms.

If someone goes into a place and starts shooting, when they are shot back at it draws their attention to the threat and their bullets. Maybe they kill the defender but they will expend more ammunition in the attempt thus saving lives in that manner. People will possibly be able to escape to cover because the attention of the attacker has turned on the defender. Most of those doing these attacks are cowards and had there been return fire they would have more than likely fled or been stopped because they wanted to die.

It is not a question of whether they need it, it is a matter of they have the right to have it. There are several styles of weapons that have the ability to be fired rapidly, pump or lever action come to mind and those are NOT semi automatic weapons. A good shooter can fire those nearly as fast as a semi auto. Double actions pistols and even single action pistols can be fired as fast as a semi auto if you practice.

It is not just gun rights that are being lost. I have heard of several people that were providing for their families with livestock and that they were confiscated by the government stating that they were being abused. I have seen photos and they definately were not being abused. In Michigan (I think) they went around killing penned hogs because they looked a certain way. They were declared feral hogs even though they were in secure pens.

In a lot of cities you can not have chickens for eggs or meat or if you can you can not have a sustainable flock because they do not allow you to have a rooster.

I most places it would be easier if they would list what you can do so that the list is shorter. Our rights have slowly been eroded and the pace of that erosion is quickening. Maybe you don't see it but I can tell you that my eggs taste better and keep longer than anything bought from the store. They can have 10k birds in a house and if they have an area say 8'x8' where they can go outside, according to the USDA rules they can be labled and sold as Free Range eggs and you pay more for them.

At my place, I have to contend with bears coming to get food and they even come up to the house. I had one the other night that was 10 feet from the front door. I would rather face one of those with a 10 shot pistol instead of a muzzle loader. Not everyone needs this but it is my right to have it if needed. I do prefer a big bore gun over a lot of rounds though. Which would you rather be shot with, a 9mm or a .45? Pope John Paul had been shot 9 times with a 9mm and lived. If it had been a larger bore gun he would have probably died.

In the end, it is not just about gun rights, it is about all rights that are guaranteed us in the constitution and by God. Guns just get the press.
 
Lenny sent you to public school didn't he? lol.

The patriots had the most advanced weaponry of the day. The weapons they had at their disposal were a close to equal match to what the Redcoats had.

The 2nd amendment has just as much to do with having the right and ability to fight a tyrannical government as it did with providing general self defense.

Arms aren't just for self defense, they are for opposing governmental tyranny:

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

Allow me to summarize that. Noah Webster is saying that IF the government tries to use force to execute laws that the people percieve to be unjust or unconstitutional, the people will rightly rise up and kick their a$$ses with they rightfully owned weapons. That is what makes us different from Europeans.

Here is another one:

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Summary, the people were given the right by the constitution to own and implement EVERY "terrible" weapon that the soldier (or any governmental force) to protect themselves and keep the government in check. Yes, that means tanks, automatic weapons or any other weapon that the government has at its disposal. It is modern brainwashing that has taught our children (and Lenny's too, obviously) that regular citizens should not be trusted with the same weaponry as the police or the military. It is not only our right, but our duty to oppose tyranny.

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. Patrick Henry

Summary: Patrick Henry said when we give up our gun rights we are ruined.

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason co-author of the 2nd amendment

Summary, taking away weapons enslaves the people to the will of the government.

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson

Summary - Jefferson is talking about a disarmed people being forced to work for the government. That is exactly the direction our country is going. We already work over 4 months of the year for the government.

Here's one for you -

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson

See, arms were never meant to be JUST for personal protection, they were meant to be used for the men of our country to defend our rights under the constitution and fight against tyranny and unjust laws should the democratic process fail. It couldn't be more plain.

We are brainwashed in the media to believe that keeping magazine capacity limited to ten rounds keeps us "safe". The only way to for us to remain safe is if real men carry arms as our founders intended and take the responsibility of keeping their families and neighbors safe. Here's what Ben Franklin had to say about safety:

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin

On the opposite end of the spectrum we can learn from other countries. Here's a quote for you:

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933

And this one on our own shores:

"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sara Brady
Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.

So, Brian, please turn in your arms, move aside and let the men take over. lol.
 
Isn't congress elected by us? I think. Is there someone else electing these people to the offices they hold? Or is it the fact that people would rather not see some guy run into a movie theater with a whole bunch of guns, did they stage that? Did they stage VA tech, 9-11, columbine? How are we to be safe in houses, if the second we step out of them we are moving targets. I am pretty sure you cannot reach your legal gun before the carjacker, or crazy person blows you away. Or am I brainwashed? I do not like government, nor do I like radical anarchists.
 
No one is advocating anarchy, or at least I am not and I don't think that Tony is either. But your scenario is a one on one surprise attack that can happen and yes your weapon will do you no good but if one of the bystanders in those other attacks had been armed the outcome would have been different. I read a story about a suicide bomber in Israel that went into a restaurant to kill the occupants. One of the bystanders was armed and killed the bomber before he could blow everyone up.

You read stories all the time where an armed bystander saves several people or stops a crime because they are armed.

Take Switzerland for example....

Every man serves in the military and is given a rifle and 24 bullets they must keep at home. The gun crime rate is so low that they do not even keep statistics. Women are not required to own guns but they are encouraged to do so. Only a crazy person is going to commit a crime when you know the other person is armed.

Out of a population of around 6 million people there are over 2 million privately owned firearms which includes 600k automatic weapons and 500k pistols. Roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the population is armed and every house with a male member is armed.

Years ago my dad's house was broken into and my guns were taken. I did get them back and the guy spent some time in jail. I then went and bought a sign and put it in his window and he has had no trouble since then. It read "This house protected by shotgun 3 nights per week. You guess which 3!"

This is a supposedly FREE country and you are free to believe what you want but to force unconstitutional restrictions on those that think differently is something all together different. Yes congress is elected by us. The problem stems from places like California, NY, Illinois and Ohio forcing their will on states like Alaska, the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada etc. These are issues that need to be dealt with on a state level not a federal level. The constitution is set up that way. The feds force states to do things that they do not want to do. Years ago Montan had no speed limit on the highways. If you have ever driven across Montana you know how big the state is and how little traffic there is on the highways. Even today I can drive 50 miles on the highway and see mayge 10 to 20 cars. The speedlimit is 75 now but I normally travel around 60 for the better mileage. Well the feds finally said we will not give you any more money if you do not post a speed limit. What concern is that of theirs? They always claim it is for public safety but in reality they want to control EVERYTHING.

I am currently building my own home a little at a time. Why? Because if I build it myself, I do not have to get a building permit because the county does not have the authority to issue them. I only need a permit if I hire someone to build it for me and that is from the state level not the county.

Like I said, many of these issues need to be dealt with on a state level not a federal level. I would have an easier time accepting gun restrictions at the state level than I would at the federal level. Living in NJ is different from living in Montana so the same rules effect us differently than it does you.

It is our right to do as we please without causing harm to others. If I want to paint my house purple with yellow polka dots, I have that right to do so. I don't care is someone else does not like the color scheme. I bought this land with a few covenants that I do not agree with but I went in knowing them and I am working to have them changed. One restriction is that you can not have pigs. I can see not having a bunch of them but with everyone having 20 acres I see no reason that we can not raise one or two for 6 months then put in the freezer. I can put up a feedlot for cattle if I wanted to and that would be much worse than having a couple pigs. Another one is no goats. People all over here have goats on their land. They are not hurting anything or anyone at all.

There are many things that I do not agree with but I am not going to force my beliefs on someone else in another state or even county.
 
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