is it just me ...

D

DJ Carroll

Member
Or does the new move cleaner times is making sound like its giving us the royal bend over when it comes to industrial cleaning?

One of the most profitable areas of my business is now in jeopardy!
Competition is bad enough now I'm gonna have to fight with the purchasing dept. Getting a magazine that tells them to buy direct from the manufacturer?!?! WTF!

They even quoted one manufacturer saying "the nice thing about selling to the industrial market is that it is quality driven more than price"
AWESOME! So the one place I can pitch quality over price the manufacturer is gonna come in and compete against me!

The thing that really get my blood boiling is I have a cousin that sells for a large industrial supplier. He calls me up and ask what's a good brand of pressure washer. I ask why? He tells me a power plant is looking for a cold water 6 gal per min 2500 psi pwer to use at the plant. I was like dude they can't clean anything with that. Long story short he sells them this machine for double what I could buy the same brand 8 gpm hot water for!!!!!!!

This is the kinda BS that makes me think more and more everyday that what I do is a straight up joke
 
well here is my short take. Lets reverse the rolls, say you are the manufacturer, should you be restricted who you can sell to? No that would not be fair, so they are just doing their job selling to who will buy from them and trying to stay in business.

Should we be restricted who we can buy their equipment from too? It goes on and on, its business! We have to change and adapt and so does everyone else. I have had large contracts that went out and replaced us the same way with a BUNCH of cold water washers too and just yesterday I was measuring centers that had a trailer mouted pressure washer at one location. I had seen it there all summer, I asked what they were going to do with it and was told keep it for emergency cleanings only?

Cleaner Times is NOT "Contractor Times" I am not taking up for them but for the free market, personally I like things the way they are and dont want to be told what to do or how to do it. If someone gets something from me I just go get something to replace it with.
 
DJ Carroll said:
Hey I'm all about some one making their money until it effects mine. I'm with ya William the stuff in there is very elementary.

I just think that it is funny how the manufactures just came out and said how they love selling directly to the facility it's self lol
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I'm not going bad mouth Cleaner Times, but I do know from working on the inside that their primary focus is keeping manufacturers and distributors happy. I talk a little about it in my Editor's note in our Pressure Cleaning Contractor magazine (www.pressurecleaningmag.com).

Our new publication is a work in progress, so I'd appreciate your feedback on why kinds of information you'd like to see. Our primary goal is to help contractors succeed.
 
I am in sales....I work for a manufactuer. I sell 99% of my product through Distribution. I respect my distributors and would NEVER go around them unless their were extenuating circumstances.

I see know reason why they would need to sell them direct.


DJ....are you in the Pressure Washer Distribution game now? If not, what are you upset about? Are you upset because they now have their own pressure washer and will not hire you to do the cleaning?

If they are going to buy a pressure washer and cut you out of the equation as the labor, I don't see why it would matter who sold them the unit, they were going to buy it from someone.
 
Years ago, there was a magazine put out by Cleaner Times, called Pressure Concepts. That magazine was targeted towards us, the contractors. The whole focus was contractor issues. About 12 or 13 years ago, they folded into Cleaner Times, and said that they would still have some contractor focus. From time to time, they do. Most of the time, though, it seems it is manufacturer and distributor issues.
That is part of the reason that you will never see an equipment review in Cleaner Times. Even though it would be helpful to the contractors, who are likely their major subscribers, it would not be beneficial to the manufacturers or distributors, who are their major revenue stream.
I have a friend who used to be in the contracting industry that many will remember. Jon was living in Redlands, Ca. He used to say that his biggest competitor was not another contractor, but Hydro tek, because they would even go around their distributors and sell directly and actually had a direct salesman in the area around their factory. It has been this way for a long time, at least 15 years that I know of. I doubt it is going to change.
 
As a distributor to mobile contractors and industrial customers alike, allow me to chime in here.

Firstly, Cleaner Times began life as a supplier only publication. The contract cleaners had their own magazine.

Secondly, most industrial locations require pressure washing on a continual basis, and sometimes a lot of it. The local Caterpillar dealer here has 8 pressure washers in 4 different buildings. Can you imagine this company hiring 8 contractors, or a couple of contractors with multiple units, and have them ON LOCATION during operating hours to do whatever cleaning job comes up?

Many of the industrial cleaning jobs require immediate attention, instead of calling for an appointment and being put off for a day or two to be fit into a schedule.

On the flip side, most industry farms out pressure washing that is not "day to day". Zeon Rubber hires water blast companies to clean the insides of their tanks between batches, many plants hire cleaning contractors to come in and clean the facilities and machinery during shut downs, but these clean ups require multiple pressure washers as well as industrial vac units to pack the hazardous effluent off premises to a haz-mat disposal site.

All I'm saying is, don't feel that you're livelihood is threatened by your cousin dealing cleaning equipment to industrial customers. You wouldn't likely get the cleaning work that they need done anyway. If that were the case, every WalMart, Home Depot, Lowes, or lawn and garden center is an actual threat to your landscape business, which they're really not.


PS - Scott types faster than me...
 
Scott Stone said:
Years ago, there was a magazine put out by Cleaner Times, called Pressure Concepts. That magazine was targeted towards us, the contractors. The whole focus was contractor issues. About 12 or 13 years ago, they folded into Cleaner Times, and said that they would still have some contractor focus. From time to time, they do. Most of the time, though, it seems it is manufacturer and distributor issues.
That is part of the reason that you will never see an equipment review in Cleaner Times. Even though it would be helpful to the contractors, who are likely their major subscribers, it would not be beneficial to the manufacturers or distributors, who are their major revenue stream.
I have a friend who used to be in the contracting industry that many will remember. Jon was living in Redlands, Ca. He used to say that his biggest competitor was not another contractor, but Hydro tek, because they would even go around their distributors and sell directly and actually had a direct salesman in the area around their factory. It has been this way for a long time, at least 15 years that I know of. I doubt it is going to change.
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Actually, contractors only make up about 1/20th of Cleaner Times subscribers. Also, they won't review equipment partly because they don't want to offend advertisers, but also because they are writers/editors/designers. They don't use the equipment themselves.
 
Wow, 1/20th? That means there are a LOT of contractors out there that are not receiving any kind of trade magazine. I know that I don't support 20 distributors with the equipment I purchase.
That does explain a lot, but, I would think that they could have someone on staff, if they wanted to, to review equipment. I think that the operative phrase is, "If they wanted to." If they dont want someone on staff, I would be more then happy to do reviews for them.
 
Good point Russ. I can also say we have several customers that have $5K skids in the corner of their plants/shops that are ether broken or most just don't have anyone that knows how to use them. Or they don't want to devote the employee time to it. I bought a Landa with less than 100 hours from one.

We also lost a large fleet to a company when they bought a $150K truck wash for their facility. Less than a year later they were calling us back because it was broken and they couldn't get the company out to fix it.

Don't presume you've lost a customer for life when they buy their own equipment.
 
Allison Hester said:
Actually, contractors only make up about 1/20th of Cleaner Times subscribers. Also, they won't review equipment partly because they don't want to offend advertisers, but also because they are writers/editors/designers. They don't use the equipment themselves.
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Telling the truth, thats odd in this business. Thanks for the insight if what really goes on.

Cleanertimes is no sectret, its not a contractors magazine. Call and ask they will tell you that they are a distributor magazine manufacture magazine.

The american manufacturing is suffering, Karcher will likely destroy many of them over the next few years.

Landa's and other popular brands have been attempted to be built elsewhere. Karcher is muti billion dollar company and can swallow five of our largest anytime they want to write a check.

There vary existance is on ICE!!!

Some here may not think so but I know that certain manufactures are hurting.

Mitghty M is making a play twords industrial market and Cleanertimes in my opionion is following the lead of its customers. Not a bad idea but they dis-credit the revenue stream of the contract cleaner.

WHY?

This is why I get frustrated with this entire POST!!!!!!! WE ARE NOT ORGANIZED OURSELVES AND TRULY HAVE NO VOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Scott Stone said:
Wow, 1/20th? That means there are a LOT of contractors out there that are not receiving any kind of trade magazine. I know that I don't support 20 distributors with the equipment I purchase.
That does explain a lot, but, I would think that they could have someone on staff, if they wanted to, to review equipment. I think that the operative phrase is, "If they wanted to." If they dont want someone on staff, I would be more then happy to do reviews for them.
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You can check with them, but I can all but guarantee they do not want anyone to review equipment. That request has been given for years, and it's not something they're willing to do. The closest you will get it something like a pump guide that gives specifications side by side. They are risking advertising dollars by doing reviews. The equipment review requests generally come from contractors, and honestly, while CT tries to serve the contractor, they are such a small portion of who they are trying to reach that they aren't going to risk offending their primary audience for a small percentage. That wouldn't make good business sense.

I'm not sure how we (Presure Cleaning Contractor) are going to handle equipment reviews, but I do know we are having a column called "Why I use what I use" where people can talk about why they like certain products. CT I doubt would ever do that. And I'm almost certain it would not be allowed if it was not about an advertiser.


When Pressure Concepts was in publication (and remember, I worked there at the time), there were two problems. One, not enough advertising to keep it going and two, contractors would not dish out the money to pay for their subscription. When I told CT that Steve and I were coming out with a new contractor focused magazine, I was told there was no way contractors would be willing to pay for the information. (They were too cheap.) I hope to find that today's pressure washing contractors are more professional and willing to invest in their businesses and in growing our industry as a whole by supporting our new publication. In other words, I hope to prove CT wrong! Our goal with Pressure Cleaning Contractor is to better the industry and help individual contractors grow their businesses to support their families. But if we don't get the support, we too will fall by the wayside, just as Pressure Concepts did. In the grand scheme of things, our subscription is cheap -- 11 cents a day or less, depending on how often and when you choose to pay. Through the end of the month, it's $6.50, every other month. When you break it down, it's only $3.25 a month.

The big difference between our magazine and Pressure Concepts, too, is that our publisher, Steve Stephens, has been a pressure washing contractor for 30 years, as opposed to simply someone with magazine experience. That, and we also hope to get most of our content from contractors, not from me, a writer with a familiarity of the industry. Finally, while we do want to have advertising, part of the reason we are having paid subscriptions is because we do not want our content to be controlled by advertisers. (I talk about this in my editor's note.)
www.pressurecleaningmag.com
 
Ron Musgraves said:
WE ARE NOT ORGANIZED OURSELVES AND TRULY HAVE NO VOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bingo and that is why I say what I do is a joke. I may be able to make it to a mill or maybe even the 2 million mark in my region but that is not alot of money. And the work it is going to take and the CRAP we have to put up with is ridiculous.

I guess it just makes me mad that cleaner times is not a "for contractor" mag but tries to act like they are. If they aren't then why have they given away a subscription at every single round table .... OH nevermind be cause they aren't and its a talk up to their advertisers.

I guess i'm just an honest business man and schemes like this make me mad.

Oh well I'll keep on keeping on till it's time for bigger and better things...


Russ I get your point and thats fine my problem is the manufacture the company that builds these selling them to my customers. You know I love ya man :)
 
DJ Carroll said:
Bingo and that is why I say what I do is a joke. I may be able to make it to a mill or maybe even the 2 million mark in my region but that is not alot of money. And the work it is going to take and the CRAP we have to put up with is ridiculous.

I guess it just makes me mad that cleaner times is not a "for contractor" mag but tries to act like they are. If they aren't then why have they given away a subscription at every single round table .... OH nevermind be cause they aren't and its a talk up to their advertisers.

I guess i'm just an honest business man and schemes like this make me mad.

Oh well I'll keep on keeping on till it's time for bigger and better things...


Russ I get your point and thats fine my problem is the manufacture the company that builds these selling them to my customers. You know I love ya man :)
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Dj, you attended SC. CLeanertimes was there for Ceta. And event that NCE promoted and agreed to attend to promote contractors for there Org. Cleanertimes never metioned this and they didnt even come by NCE to take a photo.

Three years of rounds and we only saw one contractor rep from cleanertimes in threeeeeeeeee years.

Now do you know why? Because they do not care about the contractor revenue stream. Because its so small that they think we are a Joke.

Ive got news for all who think this industry is a JOKE!!!! I have manufactures reporting nearly half the revenue is the contract cleaner. Millions of dollars by contractor purchase. I wonder where cleanertimes gets there numbers, this industry is just getting larger and larger as the days go by.

NOW put yourself in my shoes 15 years ago and wonder why I do what I do now.
 
I think a lot of the problem is who Cleaner TImes promotes themselves to. If you promote to manufacturers, then that is going to be your reading audience.
I understand perfectly what you are saying Allison. I remember I was a paid subscriber to Pressure concepts, and never received a single invoice from Cleaner Times. I wrote an unpaid article for Cleaner Times, received my 8 copies of the magazine in the mail, and received an invoice the very next day for my subscription. It had been years since I had paid for it. It seems to me, that they have deeper problems then contractors not being willing to pay for a subscription, like, I don't know, maybe sending an invoice for contractors to pay?
 
If I didnt get cleaner times for free I wouldnt buy it. I usually read one or two articles, look for my pictures on the Armstrong Ad and put it away haha
 
Allison Hester said:
When I told CT that Steve and I were coming out with a new contractor focused magazine, I was told there was no way contractors would be willing to pay for the information.
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Allison - I sincerely hope that someday we, as contractors, together can disprove this.

Day after day you see on these forums where opportunities to grow and help your businesses are presented for VERY REASONABLE costs.....and then they don't happen because the large majority think that they can come to these forums and become professionals for free. It's monumentally frustrating and embarrassing.

I know we have and will continue to PAY for services that will benefit our businesses. I hope there are enough with that same train of thought because I like where the Pressure Cleaning magazine is going!

Celeste
 
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