is it just me ...

There are organizations that can make you, and your business better. There is no doubt about that. There are a lot of reasons. The problem is when the organization is co-opted by a person with an agenda. That has happened to the PWNA in the past, and I have heard the argument that it is happening with the PWNA, now. I have my own feelings, but that is where it is at.
So, to start a national organization that had influence, what would you need to make it happen? What would you look for in a new, start up organization? At what point would you feel it was worth your time, money and effort to belong to an organization?
I really feel that this is a soul searching series of questions. Maybe if peopel would stop and reflect on it, just a little bit, they might be able to see where this industry could go.

BTW, the last machine I bought, that was misappropriated a few months ago, was technically superior to the older machines that I have had. Things like a clutched pump, and warning lights to let you know what parts were operating, are big advancements in our industry. I can think of a few things that might improve recovery equipment, and make it more cost effective. I will leave that for the guys that are huge technical guys to figure out.

Sometimes I wonder if the reason that machines are not making huge leaps, is because enough people are not asking the right people the right questions.
 
This forum is great, I have learned ALOT and will be the first to say it has helped my business grow. So have books I've read, classes I've taken, people I've met, both inside and outside the industry. This site is a great resource but it gives me no credibility with customers. I do not pay to come to this site and it offers me great information. I do not see the value in paying some org for nothing but a logo on a website. At this point, they are doing nothing I see that is of value.

I am selfish, I am focused on growing my businesses. When I see it fit or necessary, I will pay to sign up, send someone to get "Certified" and be done with it. Until that day....not interested in helping.

Ron, I am laser focused. We do very little shotgun marketing or sales anymore.
 
Mike V said:
This forum is great, I have learned ALOT and will be the first to say it has helped my business grow. So have books I've read, classes I've taken, people I've met, both inside and outside the industry. This site is a great resource but it gives me no credibility with customers. I do not pay to come to this site and it offers me great information. I do not see the value in paying some org for nothing but a logo on a website. At this point, they are doing nothing I see that is of value.

I am selfish, I am focused on growing my businesses. When I see it fit or necessary, I will pay to sign up, send someone to get "Certified" and be done with it. Until that day....not interested in helping.

Ron, I am laser focused. We do very little shotgun marketing or sales anymore.
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Good to hear Mike, you used to throw it out there and wait. Glad you got smarter.

Good Luck
 
Scott Stone said:
BTW, the last machine I bought, that was misappropriated a few months ago, was technically superior to the older machines that I have had. Things like a clutched pump, and warning lights to let you know what parts were operating, are big advancements in our industry. I can think of a few things that might improve recovery equipment, and make it more cost effective. I will leave that for the guys that are huge technical guys to figure out.

Sometimes I wonder if the reason that machines are not making huge leaps, is because enough people are not asking the right people the right questions.
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The machines today are light years ahead of the ones made twenty years ago in terms of safety. They are much more fuel efficient too.

By the way, which article in this months magazine is the one that got everyone riled up?
 
Flipper said:
The machines today are light years ahead of the ones made twenty years ago in terms of safety. They are much more fuel efficient too.

By the way, which article in this months magazine is the one that got everyone riled up?
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It's all Scrappy's fault !!:pleasantry:
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Good to hear Mike, you used to throw it out there and wait. Glad you got smarter.

Good Luck
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Not sure if that is totally accurate....if anything, I employed a broad approach in my marketing a well as a target specific approach. Still do to some degree but that is part of a well rounded game plan.

Don't forget Ron...I am in sales and have been since 1997. My yearly sales average about 18 million. I am not new to the game and would put my sales ability up against anyone. I spend about 10% of my total time on my pressure cleaning business yet I would put my P&L against anyones here. If this was my sole means of income, I would focus more and be more involved and possibly care more about the "state of the industry". I love to build, cultivate and grow things, it is my hobby. All American is a highly profitable hobby. I don't golf, I don't hunt, I don't fish, I don't do anything but think about growing whatever I am involved with and making more money. It is my passion. I love the challenge of the sale, the challenge of finding the marketing piece that works, the challenge of the next challenge.

I know you understand what I am talking about. I am not passionate about pressure cleaning. I am passionate about my future.
 
Mike V said:
Not sure if that is totally accurate....if anything, I employed a broad approach in my marketing a well as a target specific approach. Still do to some degree but that is part of a well rounded game plan.

Don't forget Ron...I am in sales and have been since 1997. My yearly sales average about 18 million. I am not new to the game and would put my sales ability up against anyone. I spend about 10% of my total time on my pressure cleaning business yet I would put my P&L against anyones here. If this was my sole means of income, I would focus more and be more involved and possibly care more about the "state of the industry". I love to build, cultivate and grow things, it is my hobby. All American is a highly profitable hobby. I don't golf, I don't hunt, I don't fish, I don't do anything but think about growing whatever I am involved with and making more money. It is my passion. I love the challenge of the sale, the challenge of finding the marketing piece that works, the challenge of the next challenge.

I know you understand what I am talking about. I am not passionate about pressure cleaning. I am passionate about my future.
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:thumbup2:
I don't care about the "industry" either. When it dries up move on to something else. Life is way to short to be caught up in the drama of work. It is a necessary evil, a means to an end. We are identical in some things Mike, with the exception that I don't really care about making more and more money. I can live off of nothing and have before. We don't have cable, more than one tv or other things that some consider essential. But you are challenged by growing and making money and it makes you content. I am challenged by putting away just enough to last my family for the extended future so I can quit chasing a dollar and tinker, hang out with my sons, fish and hunt.
 
Flipper said:
The machines today are light years ahead of the ones made twenty years ago in terms of safety. They are much more fuel efficient too.

By the way, which article in this months magazine is the one that got everyone riled up?
Click to expand...

Philip, I guess I just don't get it. In 20 years we've got some lights, a belt guard and some other anti-explosion technology.

We are safe now.

Great. Morons who like to stick their hands in belts are now safe and the idea of survival of the fittest is once again thwarted by technology consisting of a piece of sheet metal.

Meanwhile we still have to piece together the stuff we need for normal concrete cleaning operations and have "trained" distributors telling us that 4.8 gpm is "more than adequate" for a 31 inch surface cleaner and don't offer tips higher than a #6.

I understand that contract cleaners are a small portion of your sales. There's nothing wrong with ignoring us. That's capitalism at it's finest. Just don't pretend that is not what is being done.

There's no resolve to this problem. There isn't enough monetary incentive to make it happen. But at least admit it instead of denying it. The same goes for Cleaner Times. It's a back slapping manufacturer rag and should be understood as such.

My 13's are too big not to step on some toes.
 
I've got one machine thats pushing 8 years easily...and it is identical (engine, pump) etc to another one I have that rolled off the line 6 months ago. Anyone that has a machine more than a few months takes the guard off anyway. I agree that very little has changed or innovated in a long time. Doesn't bother me but its a good assessment. What other technology has remained completely the same for almost a decade?
 
Jeff, if you feel like the manufacturers give a damn about your needs just because they offered you the x-jet, then more power to you. But the fact is, we are the least of their worries because we demand a long lasting product and need evolving technology. And while a pump with a long bolt so we can adjust belt tension easily on the road is a step in the right direction, it falls far short of being on the cutting edge of technology.

The clutch system is great, but why did it take 20 years to go from the automotive hvac compressor to the PW?
 
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Lots of whining and feeling sorry for yourselves....I honestly have never given the first thought to being "wronged" by a manufactuer.

So what can be improved on the pressure washing setups? There are only a few major components, none of which are used exclusively for the pressure washing industry.

Engine - not exclusive and I'm pretty sure the R&D Departments at Briggs, Kohler and Honda would disagree about the strides that have been made in the improved quality of their products over the last 20 years.

Pumps - the components of these pumps are universal and used in every manufactuering facility in the world....are you telling me that they are not vastly improved every year and under constant scrunity by the engineers who use them as well as the companies that make them?

Belts - come one.......do I even need to start here?


Stop your whining and complaining, what is the point.

So maybe a magazine that is NOT EVEN INTENDED FOR CONTRACTORS doesn't cater to you.....it is not suppose to....its not for you!

So maybe a local distributor doesn't cater to the contractor who buys 1 unit every 15 years and buys the occasional chemical injector and hose from them and instead focuses on the big industrial facility that buys multiple skids on a regular basis, buys parts and has it serviced on a regular basis generating much more cash flow than a single guy with a limited budget. It's business. You are not as important as you think, your purchases are not as big as you think. You are not as important to their business as you think. Step back and put it in perspective.

I still do not understand why so many people like to focus on changing the world when that focus might be better spent on yourself and your immediate business. Is it shortsighted? Perhaps.

I know there are several guys that love orgs, see value in them and think they are the salvation of the industry, that is cool and I wish them well. I hope the time spent will eventually have a great impact on their business.
 
Mike V said:
Lots of whining and feeling sorry for yourselves....I honestly have never given the first thought to being "wronged" by a manufactuer.

So what can be improved on the pressure washing setups? There are only a few major components, none of which are used exclusively for the pressure washing industry.

Engine - not exclusive and I'm pretty sure the R&D Departments at Briggs, Kohler and Honda would disagree about the strides that have been made in the improved quality of their products over the last 20 years.

Pumps - the components of these pumps are universal and used in every manufactuering facility in the world....are you telling me that they are not vastly improved every year and under constant scrunity by the engineers who use them as well as the companies that make them?

Belts - come one.......do I even need to start here?


Stop your whining and complaining, what is the point.

So maybe a magazine that is NOT EVEN INTENDED FOR CONTRACTORS doesn't cater to you.....it is not suppose to....its not for you!

So maybe a local distributor doesn't cater to the contractor who buys 1 unit every 15 years and buys the occasional chemical injector and hose from them and instead focuses on the big industrial facility that buys multiple skids on a regular basis, buys parts and has it serviced on a regular basis generating much more cash flow than a single guy with a limited budget. It's business. You are not as important as you think, your purchases are not as big as you think. You are not as important to their business as you think. Step back and put it in perspective.

I still do not understand why so many people like to focus on changing the world when that focus might be better spent on yourself and your immediate business. Is it shortsighted? Perhaps.

I know there are several guys that love orgs, see value in them and think they are the salvation of the industry, that is cool and I wish them well. I hope the time spent will eventually have a great impact on their business.
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Well said.
 
Lots of whining and feeling sorry for yourselves....I honestly have never given the first thought to being "wronged" by a manufactuer.
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No crying here, just stating the facts. I think the thread is good, some here have said why another magazine for contractors. Reality is we never had one, some people now are clear that CTM doesnt represent our segment of the industry at all.

Allison will represent the industry and Mike I would use her media to do so if I where you. Your good at that aspect of the business, this is and opourtunity to use the powers in your favor.

Organization and structure in our industry is better than not having it.
 
Tony Shelton said:
Philip, I guess I just don't get it. In 20 years we've got some lights, a belt guard and some other anti-explosion technology.

We are safe now.

Great. Morons who like to stick their hands in belts are now safe and the idea of survival of the fittest is once again thwarted by technology consisting of a piece of sheet metal.

Meanwhile we still have to piece together the stuff we need for normal concrete cleaning operations and have "trained" distributors telling us that 4.8 gpm is "more than adequate" for a 31 inch surface cleaner and don't offer tips higher than a #6.

I understand that contract cleaners are a small portion of your sales. There's nothing wrong with ignoring us. That's capitalism at it's finest. Just don't pretend that is not what is being done.

There's no resolve to this problem. There isn't enough monetary incentive to make it happen. But at least admit it instead of denying it. The same goes for Cleaner Times. It's a back slapping manufacturer rag and should be understood as such.

My 13's are too big not to step on some toes.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind when reading my reply that again, I post as an individual with 20 years experience in the industry, not as a representative of a manufacturer.

Also keep in mind that I work with the military so my day to day interactions with contract cleaners is extremely limited.

I disagree that manufacturers ignore contract cleaners. Any industry that buys large quantities of machines certainly has the attention of a manufacturer. But keep in mind the end user is not the actual customer of a manufacturer. The dealer is the customer. Manufacturers produce equipment based on the dealers requests.

When a dealer buys a piece of equipment, the majority of them then offer upgrades attachments and accessories to suit a specific type of customer's needs. When a manufacturer decides they want to offer some of these as options or standard features on a washer, they can face strong resistance from their dealers who would prefer to accessorize the machines themselves. Factory built trailers are a good example of this. Most dealers have their own trailer rigs they prefer to sell with the washer.

It takes a tremendous amount of time and money to design a new machine. The first question asked is "How many do you think you can sell?" The answer has to be in the hundreds or thousands to justify the effort. It can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to design, build, test, and certify a new unit. The R&D cost is always factored into the price which obviously increases the cost of the machine. . When its put on the market you then hear comments that one could build a similar setup themselves for less money. Often times a new product doesn't sell well making the manufacturer even more cautious spending developmental money in the future.

Unfortunately, sometimes the answer is that it's just not practical to build a specific system or accessory. The company could do it, but it would be too expensive when the final product would be offered for sale. In these instances, if there really is a need, you see smaller niche companies that don't have the overhead of a major manufacturer pop up and offer their own options or attachments for specific applications.

Innovation in our industry certainly exist. Its just done cautiously because the market for new, untested, and more expensive products is smaller than you might think. A company can add all the bells and whistles in the world, but when it comes to buying a system most people are still going to purchase the lower priced unit that meets their requirements.

And something else to consider is just how good the machines are that are now on the market. Many machines in use are 10 - 15 years old. The rental yard in town has has a Landa hot water unit that was built in 1987 that they still use daily. That's the one thing that's hard about selling these machines, I don't get to replace a unit every three years, it takes a long time for these machines to wear out. Its entirely possible that the new washer you buy today will outlast two or three of the trucks you use to tow them with.

Anyway, that's a few of my thoughts on the issue. Please remember I post as an individual, not as a representative.
 
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