Positives on PWNA BMPs?

[Clean County PW]

Maybe you guys already knew this. First, the original BMPs written by Robert and approved by PWNA have been on the EPA WEBSITE for YEARS. If the local authorities want to find them, they are on the EPA WEBSITE! Why would they go to our subscriber-only magazine where they will have to pay to read the article when they are right there on the EPA website?

Same thing for the first PWNA website. Been there for years. Just apparently no one realized it.

Second, if you Google "PWNA BMPs," guess what shows up first? Yep. THIS site...and all the comments/attention that participants don't mind drawing to it here.

I'm kind of at a loss as to why reporting to contractors about why some feel this is an issue, why some contractors are upset, why helping contractors know that BMPs are REQUIRED to be in their communities, and why they may want to work with their local authorities to create them before the authorities do it themselves is hurting contractors. Especially when the article is going to be available to subscribers only. Which is hurting contractors more? Bringing to light the reality -- warts and all -- or just letting them get blindsided by another Houston?

Allison what your saying about especially what I outlined in blue is the same thing I don't understand where getting from these few guys here. First off let me give you some facts. Back when I was on the PWNA BOD around 2004 we had just over 300 members. A couple of years later we hit 475 members with around 400 of them current with there dues. We should have hit 600 but thats another story for another day.

The problem here is these guys are missing the point and your making it clear as day in your post which once again I outlined it in blue. There mad At Robert Hinderliter and the PWNA because Robert instead of doing NOTHING decided years ago to do something so the Authorities don't just try to make up the rules themselves without some professional guidance. Robert and the PWNA was smart to do that becuase if no one did nothing then, today in many area's there would be no powerwashing or at least commercial powerwashing as much because of all the fines the contractors would have recieved over the years.

What Robert taught in his Environmental classes was to at least do something to be compliant which is to redirect the water to maybe a grassy area which would be acceptable in some cases. Robert at one time was a contractor who happen to become a very successful Distributor years later. These guys look at it like Robert dealt with the EPA so he can sell equipment. This is where the phallacy begines. Yes of course he can sell equipment but what he saw was the Authorities were going to make it just about impossible to Powerwash where ever there was a storm drain nearby. So Robert went to them and said we can work with you on that...and him and the PWNA did.

Keep in mind once again back when I was in because I can only talk about my experiences there..Robert and Delco was one of maybe 30 distributors that were PWNA members. The other 400 were contractors. We knew and respected what Robert was trying to do because without him no one else really had the complete understanding of all of this as he did. Robert is a very smart man. The thought then was as it is today that to do nothing is a huge mistake.

So today the problem now is what your reading in places like this. Robert and the PWNA are not the enemies. Can some others come up with better BMP's ????? My guess is....YES..I'm sure they can. This is why its always a good idea to work with what you have and go from there. These guys know what the PWNA BMP's are so they can take those and maybe present a better set of BMP's.... but there going about it all wrong. There fighting themselves and like you said.... its all here to see if you do a search.
The other mix message thats going out there is that Robert is presenting the Contractors as Polluters because he believes some effort should be made to keep some waters out of the storm drains. Once again he is a smart man. He is trying to get them to see that the effort is there to do that and in doing so it really isn't that expensive for the contractors if you do what he suggest is the very bare minimum...BUT... Once again some of these guys are promoting that Robert and the PWNA are the problem when they just don't want to see if or can't see it....but you can which once again is what I outlined in your post in blue.

The Coalition, Or whatever the next group of people that want to try and do something here they should use to there disposal what was already done and try to better it. Not try to knock it down and in the process makes us all seem like a bunch of uninformed contractors that just want to duke it out just for the drama of it all.

This is a real issue and for the life of me I can't see why these guys want to fight within the industry when there real problem is the AHJ's in there area's.

Also like You I did what Kory suggested to do the other day which is put our names in a google seach. Mine was funny,strange,wierd and everything in between. The PWNA.... well take a guess who's picture pops up near the very top??RON MUSGRAVES. Also like you said when you do a search about this PWI comes up near the top and in this case.... it isnt pretty.

Lastly some of these guys are suggesting you don't write the story with the PWNA mentioned. That again I find a little disturbing...but...I'm not the creative writer who has a story to write....you are... and sometimes I would guess in your case the stories are tough to do but your in that position and this one is going to be an interesting read for sure.

Good luck

 

[bigchaz]

You love the PWNA John, pretty sure thats clear by now. The vast majority disagree with you an thats their decision and their business as they would know best how it effects them.

 

[Clean County PW]

You love the PWNA John, pretty sure thats clear by now. The vast majority disagree with you an thats their decision and their business as they would know best how it effects them.

I love Ron to but those two can kiss each other... count me out.

 

[Allison Hester]

Instead of using the P*** name, why not write about what the Clean Water Act really says so others will know if they are new to the industry, so that municipalities will know if they are approached by emails, mail or people trying to use scare tactics to get them to slowly turn into another "Houston"?

Showing what the Clean Water Act really says will help educate contractors, municipalities and might possibly bring more readers to your magazine if you are helping to show them what the Clean Water Act really is saying (not manipulated or blatently lied about like others have done) and then you are really helping a lot of contractors out there that either don't have a clue, are new or have been mis-informed or lied to.

I am already working on this (CWA article) but will probably not have anything for this upcoming issue. I don't want to rush it and risk inaccuracies.

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I very well may not run the article since it seems to be something that likely neither the PWNA nor those who oppose the PWNA really want. I had started what I thought was a really well written piece on the whole issue, giving both sides, which is something that rarely happened with the former pressure washing magazine that I wrote for. (If one of the associations provided information, it was usually run with no questions asked.) I had hoped this could be a piece to show we were going to be more balanced. However, if it's something that contractors truly feel will damage their businesses, and it's information that those who previously voiced their opinions don't care to have heard further, I'm not going to force the issue.

Thank you again for the feedback.

 

[Clean County PW]

You love the PWNA John, pretty sure thats clear by now. The vast majority disagree with you an thats their decision and their business as they would know best how it effects them.

Charlie All I'm saying is why attack the PWNA when there is a much better approach then the obvious one here which is to jump all over the PWNA. Robert brought up some really good ideas when it came to cosmetic,Environmental or what ever the term of the day is for this type of Power washing. I don't see condeming the man who when you get to meet him and converse with him you do see that he really cares.

The better approach would seem to be to take what he has done and go from there. Nobody says there is only one to go about this but the AHJ's are starting to take that approach. I'm also hearing that even on close loop systems that are the most costly and probably the best way to clean aren't even being accepted in the Houston area.

I guess because its obvious I'm not getting much support from this bulletin board I am waisting my time to show others a different approach which is to take what you know and if you have a better Idea go there and show the AHJ's instead of fighting with the ones who have done that in the past such as Robert and the PWNA.

I also wish Allison would write the story she wants to write but since neither side is not really helping her and once again I am surprise that the PWNA isn't supportive of this, is causing her to change her mind.... thats a loss for us. Its a controversial story but one where we can all take something from it and in this Houston fiasco every little bit helps.

 

[Allison Hester]

I also wish Allison would write the story she wants to write but since neither side is not really helping her and once again I am surprise that the PWNA isn't supportive of this, is causing her to change her mind.... thats a loss for us. Its a controversial story but one where we can all take something from it and in this Houston fiasco every little bit helps.

I just want to clarify that the PWNA has said nothing against me writing this. In fact, Robert has been VERY helpful and answered some tough questions head on. I just meant that the article presented the opposing side to the PWNA, so I assumed it was not going to be their favorite story either.

 

[Clean County PW]

Hi Allison,
After reading these post and also your very excellent first online addition it just occured to me I never subscribed..Dummm du da dumm dumm. "Does dumb dumb want gum gum" From the movie "Night at the Museum" starring Ben Stiller. My girls loved that movie. I just signed up now. How many additions came out after that "Monster" first one which was great!!

 

[Allison Hester]

Thank you John!
We are behind. Still getting our sea legs, so you haven't missed anything. Getting the next one out in the next couple of weeks then we will be on schedule for every two months. I will make sure everyone who subscribed gets the right number of issues.

As for the BMP article, I've thought long and hard about it. Part of the magazine's mission -- a BIG part, actually -- is to try to help bring the industry together. Steve talks about this in his "Tsunami" piece, which is on our webiste (www.PCCMagazine.com). This article, while yes it could be a good article, it is not a topic that will help us reach our mission. So for now, at least, it's gonna be off the plate.

Thanks for your support (and subscription!)

 

[Clean County PW]

I do recall reading somewhere your husband was coming back from Afghanistan or something like that. Hows he doing with all of that? There was a Powerwashing guy here on this bb who last year I believe it was happened to be shipped off to Iraq. Maybe its been a couple of years ago that he was there and he was anxious to get back and start powerwashing again. I can't remember his name but there's a good story to be told right there.

Here's a picture of me back in 83 or so in Jerusaleam with the Navy. I'd love to go back there but not at this time. To much violence to subject my family to. I do know some people heading out that way including possibly my sister and brother-in-law in the near future. I hope they don't go and from what I'm hearing they may not be allowed to go there at this time. Very dangerous.

 

[Allison Hester]

I do recall reading somewhere your husband was coming back from Afghanistan or something like that. Hows he doing with all of that? There was a Powerwashing guy here on this bb who last year I believe it was happened to be shipped off to Iraq. Maybe its been a couple of years ago that he was there and he was anxious to get back and start powerwashing again. I can't remember his name but there's a good story to be told right there.

Here's a picture of me back in 83 or so in Jerusaleam with the Navy. I'd love to go back there but not at this time. To much violence to subject my family to. I do know some people heading out that way including possibly my sister and brother-in-law in the near future. I hope they don't go and from what I'm hearing they may not be allowed to go there at this time. Very dangerous.

Thanks for asking John. Mike came home in early February. It's going pretty well. MUCH better than when he came back in 2008. I guess we had a better feel for what to expect this go around and took precautions to be prepared. People just expect soldiers to come home and everything to return to normal, but there is no "normal." We each had our own "normals" for an entire year and there's really no going back to how it was before.

Actually, I sort of blogged about that today: http://twilights4autism.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-im-celebrating-memorial-day.html

 

[offdutyfireman]

Thanks for your husband's service. My father is a retired Vietnam Vet who is now a contractor in Baghdad. One brother is Air Cav stationed in Iraq and one in Army PsiOps attached to 1st Battalion 4th Marines in Afgan. My Brother-n-law Is 82 Airborn in Iraq. I seem to be the only male member stateside most of the time. The only charity my wife and I donate to is Autism Speaks. I appreciate the sacrifices you make as well as your husband.

 

[Allison Hester]

Thank YOU for your service as a first responder and your family's as well. And thanks for supporting Autism Speaks. Autism is an epidemic, and one that affects my precious little boy.

 

[Carolina Prowash]

Well if we're staying off topic here.......thank you to Roger, my Marine, and Ashlie - my active duty AF daughter The rest of the family list is ridiculous. God save and protect all of our troops and the families that support them.

 

[Allison Hester]

Well if we're staying off topic here.......thank you to Roger, my Marine, and Ashlie - my active duty AF daughter The rest of the family list is ridiculous. God save and protect all of our troops and the families that support them.

Yeah, we're all kind of having a happy moment. (Enjoy it!)

 

[Christopher]

Thank You to all the Service persons here and out in the field for taking care of us and protecting us.

 

[Clean County PW]

Thanks for asking John. Mike came home in early February. It's going pretty well. MUCH better than when he came back in 2008. I guess we had a better feel for what to expect this go around and took precautions to be prepared. People just expect soldiers to come home and everything to return to normal, but there is no "normal." We each had our own "normals" for an entire year and there's really no going back to how it was before.

Actually, I sort of blogged about that today: http://twilights4autism.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-im-celebrating-memorial-day.html

You know Allison I just read your blog. Your Husband probably doesn't want to hear this and being overseas myself back in the Lebenon days right after the Marines were blown up in there barricks I kind of understand his mindset. Since he just came home his memories are very raw because there from not to long ago. So it makes sense to me why he would feel the way he does at this moment in time. I know when I dealt with a horrific jet crash on Long Island in 1990 I never went to any event or stayed connected to any of it after we did our job. Years later some writers came into my precinct and wanted to talk with me and my partner who were working that night. We never followed thru with any phone calls to them or participated in anything to do with the story and the facts.

My parents thought I should get involved and I just couldn't get my mind there to do it. I seperated myself from it and kept it away and even to this day it never seemed real...Like kind of surreal and thats how I dealt with that.

As for your husband maybe one day he will look back at these sad memories and he may think differently where he never wants them or any vet to be forgotten. But either way your husband falls into that hero catagory because he went into those area's representing the USA and he did his job. Thats what we do and unless someone actually goes to where your husband went to some people may not realize the sacrifice he put on the line which could have been his life.......and that to me and many others makes him a hero.

 

[jlpressure]

Dont count on it. Just about 20 yrs now this org. has been operating. Its not going anywhere.

Yup, as long as Facilitec and others get PWNA KEC certifications cheap yearly, they will keep the PWN* open. Funny how that works

 

[Clean County PW]

Yup, as long as Facilitec and others get PWNA KEC certifications cheap yearly, they will keep the PWN* open. Funny how that works

So much for the Happy moment:speechless: What do you consider cheap when it comes to certifications?? Who should set the price on those?? Common Jeff whats you got....spit it out.

 

[jlpressure]

So much for the Happy moment:speechless: What do you consider cheap when it comes to certifications?? Who should set the price on those?? Common Jeff whats you got....spit it out.

Got nothing to spit out John, not about who should set pricing. To me its about why the PWNA is around. Is it about "The Contractors"? or is it about Certain members or BOD members keeping it going for their companies personal gain and or savings. The PWN* isnt about the average contractor or about the contractors, its about a certain few big companies and the savings they have keeping the PWN* going. I have no problem with that, but let them BE HONEST

Thing isnt about the contractors, its a cost savings tool, whether they have 263 members or 46 members. Now is it just a tool with the BMP's too for a few top members? Got nothing John, just trying to point out the obvious as I have heard it from others. It makes sense to me and could give a darn, I'm not going to be a member, just rather hear the honest truth. Oh well.

The PWNA was down below 50 members never heard anything much from them until Ron stepped in last year, but it was kept going and like you say always will

 

[Clean County PW]

Got nothing to spit out John, not about who should set pricing. To me its about why the PWNA is around. Is it about "The Contractors"? or is it about Certain members or BOD members keeping it going for their companies personal gain and or savings. The PWN* isnt about the average contractor or about the contractors, its about a certain few big companies and the savings they have keeping the PWN* going. I have no problem with that, but let them BE HONEST

Thing isnt about the contractors, its a cost savings tool, whether they have 263 members or 46 members. Now is it just a tool with the BMP's too for a few top members? Got nothing John, just trying to point out the obvious as I have heard it from others. It makes sense to me and could give a darn, I'm not going to be a member, just rather hear the honest truth. Oh well.

The PWNA was down below 50 members never heard anything much from them until Ron stepped in last year, but it was kept going and like you say always will

I don't think they ever went down to 50 members in the past 15 yrs if not longer. Ron was great for the PWNA but he didn't cause them to get 75% new members all of a sudden but he did bring in many new members and he deserved there award and I'm glad they picked him for it.

I don't know Jeff if I believe all the hypocracy that is passes around. I know the stories Joe Walters told me back when Robert was starting the PWNA and the hardships he dealt with from some people back then. I also know again from What Joe Walters told me the pain it caused Robert to carry on with this because he felt it was going to help the contractors. Hey look if it it doesn't work for your company then don't join. I've been a member for at least 10 yrs now and they have helped my company tremendously because I worked my membership as alot of smart contractors do in that org.

Sit and do nothing with any org....u get nothing back. You know that first hand because you have done both.

I'm still trying to figure out what NCE is. I read in the newest Cleaner Times that the NCE is hosting events for the PWNA, The Tampa RT etc. So I look at them as the events planner that will be huge. I didn't know they are going to be also an opinionated bunch who will throw orgs and other contractors out of the industry if they feel they don't belong and don't agree with the NCE on such political issues. Rons words not mine. Totaly lost me on that one.