Positives on PWNA BMPs?

Clean County PW said:
I don't think they ever went down to 50 members in the past 15 yrs if not longer. Ron was great for the PWNA but he didn't cause them to get 75% new members all of a sudden but he did bring in many new members and he deserved there award and I'm glad they picked him for it.

I don't know Jeff if I believe all the hypocracy that is passes around. I know the stories Joe Walters told me back when Robert was starting the PWNA and the hardships he dealt with from some people back then. I also know again from What Joe Walters told me the pain it caused Robert to carry on with this because he felt it was going to help the contractors. Hey look if it it doesn't work for your company then don't join. I've been a member for at least 10 yrs now and they have helped my company tremendously because I worked my membership as alot of smart contractors do in that org.

Sit and do nothing with any org....u get nothing back. You know that first hand because you have done both.

I'm still trying to figure out what NCE is. I read in the newest Cleaner Times that the NCE is hosting events for the PWNA, The Tampa RT etc. So I look at them as the events planner that will be huge. I didn't know they are going to be also an opinionated bunch who will throw orgs and other contractors out of the industry if they feel they don't belong and don't agree with the NCE on such political issues. Rons words not mine. Totaly lost me on that one.
Click to expand...

Whatever, didnt talk about anything I wrote. But its not your place to any way, so its cool John. I'm starting an org any way. I plan on having the JL Pressure Washing Org Decals across the country lol
 
Clean County PW said:
Dont count on it. Just about 20 yrs now this org. has been operating. Its not going anywhere.
Click to expand...

As of late should you say, 'It's not going anywhere, fast'.
 
jlpressure said:
Yup, as long as Facilitec and others get PWNA KEC certifications cheap yearly, they will keep the PWN* open. Funny how that works
Click to expand...

Hey Jeff there is your point and I came back with a question which you had no answer for. Start the JL org... Have fun. Ken Fenner said it best years ago. Anyone can start anything on the net and put certifications or whatever on it and say your company is this or that.. True but thats not the way it really is even though I'm sure someone somewhere is doing it. The certifications that I recieved thru the PWNA from the Wood Restoration and Environmental cleaning from Pete Marentey they were well organized and Tried and true..and real.

Don't have nothing else to add and still don't know what questions you asked accept this.. The PWNA has to answer to its members first. As in any org. Union,association, Medical plan etc... Thats life. Don't like it... Then don't join. You know that Jeff.. but you like to break my nuts.. that are made of steel:thumbup2:
 
You need to post the actual BMP here Allison. We can dissect it, after that you could get a better idea that no contractor that really understood would support that as a starting BMP.

There are things just not needed, some areas will not even allow sanitary to be used.

Its driven by a few to help a Few, I sure hope that the PWNA BOD are practicing what they preach?

Really the BOD passed this with flying Colors, I will expect to here all have implemented this into there wash systems. Regardless if they are residential contractors or not.

I wonder if Lance Winslow is available for photo taking? Lance was the leader in getting a ladder and taking photos of contractors not reclaiming. Yes he stood on ladders and shot photos over the tops of fences. I will find the photos latter, we all promote this type of behavior. frankly I will not have anything to do with this behavior ever.

These are tactics if weak feeble minded folks.

Allison Hester said:
I am working on an article on the new PWNA BMPs and want to try to give both sides of the story -- those for and those against. I've seen lots of against comments on the board but wonder if anyone sees the BMPs as a positive. I don't necessarily want to start a new argument here. Just if you are for them and willing to be quoted on that, or at least be interviewed (I can not include your name but use the info), please let me know ASAP.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
 
I thought that we already dissected the bogus B.S. bmp's by the P*** a while back, that was a lot of typing as they really did not have anything that relates to real work situations, just what sounds good to them on paper or in their minds.

Post the bmp's again and we can just cut and paste from the other thread what is wrong with their fantasy bmp's that will not work in cities like Houston or most other parts of the country without having to jump through hoops, buy unneeded equipment or admit that you are a polluter.
 
Originally Posted by Tony Shelton
Robert, I hope you are doing much better now after your recent troubles.

I haven't met you and I don't know you very well, but I've heard many good things about you.

With that said, I've tried to soak in every bit of information I could get from your website including all the written material and the Loooooooooong videos.....

Your BMP's look good and would be outstanding for our industry if hot water washing was exempted in all situations and all the government red tape - (permits, fees, etc) was removed.

This post of yours is bold and either you are really a good guy who really does care about the average working guy in this industry or you are the best actor in the world. I feel certain you are the former.


Your post reveals what I've been trying to explain for a long time. You are asking us to help keep manufacturers from using their political muscle to the detriment of our industry.

Robert, I know this is just how things happen in the US. But guys just don't seem to understand that the rules we live by are sculpted by manufacturers whose goal is to sell merchandise. Laws, licensing fees, etc. are also written by the wealthiest competitors to their advantage.

The only way to beat this is for contractors to organize and fight against it. We cannot win by "complying", "accepting", "compromising" but just plain fighting tooth and nail against it.
Will the UAMCC do it or will they also be led by the manufacturers who pay a big portion of the bills? Only time will tell. I know they support your BMP's now. Will it last?

Yes it will last Tony. We talked interviewed and questioned Robert on many occasions before we had Robert on a Enviro Consultant and our talks focused on what is in the best interest of the contractors. I know you think negative about anything UAMCC, I feel thats your hang up and something you can deal with,The UAMCC will move forward on whats best for contractors, because its will be run by contractors and no one else. You say manufacturers pay a big portion of the bills, actually this a mistatement on the actual facts and wrong, they do not pay a big portion. Although the UAMCC has vendor members and we ask questions of them and value our vendor members and they suppy our members with tools and products, this is a org of and for contractors, no matter what you say or insinuate. Tony maybe you dont know but Vendor Members can't vote for or be on the UAMCC Board of Directors. I think you could guess why that is. Only contractor members can vote and be on the BOD so we keep it in the best interest of the contractors
Will it last? yes Tony, The UAMCC will always support smart BMP's, That was shown in Charlotte when the UAMCC, Carlos and Robert fought for a reasonable BMP, many calls, many emails, meetings and in the end good things we're and are being worked out
I say thanks Tony for your support, you actually support something the UAMCC has done and that is to fight for reasonable BMP's and having Robert as our Enviro Consultant...

Why is there a need for paying fees to the government for the right to work? Can this simply be removed from the nationally promoted BMP's?

Thanks
It sure looks like this will be a fluid issue for a long time, but the UAMCC will help fight the fight when and where we can. We are a young org, but we are a Org of and for contractors. Thanks

Jeff and Tony in a post a couple of years back. This is whats amazing. For some reason they see this correctly then but today after all the hype comes out how is it there message changes.
These are the solutions. We have to work together. There are many post like this but when peopled get there feathers ruffled they must recover and stay on track. Where one in this industry and the Powerwashers are not the enemies. We need each other to get the big picture in place and that is for all of us to keep making money and when an outside agency wants to change that up on us we need "together" show them a better way.

I love searching these old posts. Ron taught me this years ago when he brings up post that could be 8-10 yrs old. Remember where you started and what you believed in. Sure somethings have changed but we still are in this together.
 
John, I have noy changed my opinion since 1996 when Phoenix went through this mess. A contractors involved in the PWNA Screwed up our city. Didnt take as long to abolish the problems, a couple city trucks. Now the city Outsources the projects to private contractors. Million dollar city contract, you all will be surprised when the City of phoenix announces this baby. 25 unit account.....most PWNA members dont have that many trucks including Daryl excuting one account. LOL Sorry to be so joyfull about this but I think some here will start understanding how this market was created.

John, one thing I'm glad you tell the truth the best you understand it. Thats not surprising that your infact Roberts worse nightmare, you tell everyone right here Robert was fighting for stricter and Carlos Less. LOL Thanks John for confirming that!!!!

Now we have a person under no control working for WHO????????
 
Clean County PW said:
Originally Posted by Tony Shelton
Robert, I hope you are doing much better now after your recent troubles.

I haven't met you and I don't know you very well, but I've heard many good things about you.

With that said, I've tried to soak in every bit of information I could get from your website including all the written material and the Loooooooooong videos.....

Your BMP's look good and would be outstanding for our industry if hot water washing was exempted in all situations and all the government red tape - (permits, fees, etc) was removed.

This post of yours is bold and either you are really a good guy who really does care about the average working guy in this industry or you are the best actor in the world. I feel certain you are the former.


Your post reveals what I've been trying to explain for a long time. You are asking us to help keep manufacturers from using their political muscle to the detriment of our industry.

Robert, I know this is just how things happen in the US. But guys just don't seem to understand that the rules we live by are sculpted by manufacturers whose goal is to sell merchandise. Laws, licensing fees, etc. are also written by the wealthiest competitors to their advantage.

The only way to beat this is for contractors to organize and fight against it. We cannot win by "complying", "accepting", "compromising" but just plain fighting tooth and nail against it.
Will the UAMCC do it or will they also be led by the manufacturers who pay a big portion of the bills? Only time will tell. I know they support your BMP's now. Will it last?

Yes it will last Tony. We talked interviewed and questioned Robert on many occasions before we had Robert on a Enviro Consultant and our talks focused on what is in the best interest of the contractors. I know you think negative about anything UAMCC, I feel thats your hang up and something you can deal with,The UAMCC will move forward on whats best for contractors, because its will be run by contractors and no one else. You say manufacturers pay a big portion of the bills, actually this a mistatement on the actual facts and wrong, they do not pay a big portion. Although the UAMCC has vendor members and we ask questions of them and value our vendor members and they suppy our members with tools and products, this is a org of and for contractors, no matter what you say or insinuate. Tony maybe you dont know but Vendor Members can't vote for or be on the UAMCC Board of Directors. I think you could guess why that is. Only contractor members can vote and be on the BOD so we keep it in the best interest of the contractors
Will it last? yes Tony, The UAMCC will always support smart BMP's, That was shown in Charlotte when the UAMCC, Carlos and Robert fought for a reasonable BMP, many calls, many emails, meetings and in the end good things we're and are being worked out
I say thanks Tony for your support, you actually support something the UAMCC has done and that is to fight for reasonable BMP's and having Robert as our Enviro Consultant...

Why is there a need for paying fees to the government for the right to work? Can this simply be removed from the nationally promoted BMP's?

Thanks
It sure looks like this will be a fluid issue for a long time, but the UAMCC will help fight the fight when and where we can. We are a young org, but we are a Org of and for contractors. Thanks

Jeff and Tony in a post a couple of years back. This is whats amazing. For some reason they see this correctly then but today after all the hype comes out how is it there message changes.
These are the solutions. We have to work together. There are many post like this but when peopled get there feathers ruffled they must recover and stay on track. Where one in this industry and the Powerwashers are not the enemies. We need each other to get the big picture in place and that is for all of us to keep making money and when an outside agency wants to change that up on us we need "together" show them a better way.

I love searching these old posts. Ron taught me this years ago when he brings up post that could be 8-10 yrs old. Remember where you started and what you believed in. Sure somethings have changed but we still are in this together.
Click to expand...

We also kept Robert on a short leash as consultant.

John I knew little of BMP's until it came to my town THIS year. I learned if the Fort Worth BMP was in place here I would not be able to wash garages anymore and it is good winter work around here. I can do these garages with NO reclaim and that BMP would of screwed me. So with the facts and knowledge I have gained yes i will fight the PWNA and Robert on this. i would be an idiot if i did not.

You back the PWNA on everything and all for them thats OK, you went after the UAMCC like a mad man, made threats and did nothing to try to fix it, just a list of 45 questions with 102 subparts, that is fine. But the Fort Worth BMP should not be a Generic BMP that is pushed by the PWNA.

As for the JL Org, that was a joke you Putz. i just want to see my logo nationwide
 
I don't see how I've changed John. My opinion of Robert hasn't changed much either. The only thing that's different is that the P*NA is advertising itself as our "clear voice" in the promotion of these BMP's. (Please see this month's Cleaner Times for their ad) And they are going full blast with it even as the bulk of the industry is asking them to halt.
 
lol...Jeff your Logo will be nationwide one way or another. Yup we all made mistakes with Carlos as he did to. Those questions were groundballs which is the reason I asked them. They were to easy... and why was that?? Because we did nothing about it on any of them and the fault lies with us guys Jeff and that includes yourself... We failed and we shouldn't have. We absolutely failed. You may not think so but to me it was just that a failure.

Just got off the phone today with Joe Walters who happened to call and I related a story that Ron here knows to be 100% truth. I was heading to spend the weekend with Kathy in Atlantic City all comp'd and just couldn't get there fast enough. Free suite and I got this offer right around Kathy's birthday and this was a month before the UAMCC Convention....and what do I do?? Just about the whole 3hr drive down there I have Ron on one line and Carlos on the other. These two would not speak to each other so I spoke to them seperately and relayed the info to each. Kathy was not happy about this because literally I had to have been on the phone for at least 2 of those 3 hrs.

The org. then was breaking at the core and you Jeff,myself,Rob, Scott, Don, Carlos,Ron, Mike and a couple of others were right at the core and we blew it but still I can't slam Robert, I am Friendly with Ron, I am on good terms again with Carlos even though neither one of us will ever forget, I have given Everett Abrams a rock solid recommendation on LinkedIN and on and on. These guys and yes I collided with some of them are extremely passionate about this industry... there all good guys.

Back to Robert just knowing what he went thru back when he started the PWNA is some compelling story. He stepped outside the box and went for it. I never met a more knowledgable guy about Enviro cleaning then Robert....Nobody even close. Also Robert has always said that the very least we should direct the water away from a storm drain and if no one cared then there would be no problems here but apparently the EPA type groups want something thats unattainable so they need to be guided and in this industry we have no Godly amount of lose cash to get the high powered talking heads in there to get the EPA to lighten there reasoning... So what do we have??? Each other and our industry.

We all made mistakes and some of us will be gone in a few years in this industry and the next group will be running the show. They already are... but.. hopefully they get more backing and they see how us guys have screwed up so they can do better there time up.... and I'm guessing there not going to be successful by slamming there predesesors who paved the way for them.

Personally I always thought this country is getting to be to environmentally conscious where there restricting us as a nation to succeed and if you go back in time we were the leaders in factories/Industrial and innovative type work which made us great. Today where squeezing ourselves right down the toilet where other countries are blowing right past us. These countries are becoming self suffucient and they don't restrict the creative and hard workers from getting there jobs done. Since our country no longer is like this I praise guys like Robert who at least get in there with those think tanks and try to keep us in business by curtailing there unbelievable thought pattern of how we should clean.

Simply put---Robert is a Godsend then and should be respected today whether you agree with him or not. He does give a darn as does Joe Walters and many other guys who paved the way for many. The internet and the facebooks etc. have brought us into a different world and I'm probably starting to now get out of date with all the technology out there but I will say this.... and Facebook is at the highest on my shitz list. These sights have brought down the standard of people being classy and upstanding to beyond belief. It has changed people and made them shallow in many aspects. It turned plenty of people to say things thru the written word and thru pics to make others look bad where they were never taught by there parents to be like that and to just cut someone down right from there Keyboard whether the person deserved it or not. Its sad...but its the world we live in today and I hope my girls do OK with all of this and every now and then they tell me they wish none of this was around so they could have had more fun going outside just to call for a friend by knocking on there door... Those days are soon to be ancient history... So this is why I try not to be as hurtful to some as I have been in the past.... and in Roberts case yes I am and always will be impressed by how much he has done and how much he cared and just how down to earth and genuine of a person he is just by the way he speaks.

Just an all around good guy who has a son that we know who is very similiar. I'm glad I've met them.
 
Tony Shelton said:
I don't see how I've changed John. My opinion of Robert hasn't changed much either. The only thing that's different is that the P*NA is advertising itself as our "clear voice" in the promotion of these BMP's. (Please see this month's Cleaner Times for their ad) And they are going full blast with it even as the bulk of the industry is asking them to halt.
Click to expand...

Tony you havent changed much at all. You have always said what was on your mind and whether people like it or not its better to get a true feeling of what one thinks. It does look like you might have had more respect for Robert then but hey I understand why things change. As for the PWNA going forward with there BMP's I can't say I blame them...but...I am not really part of that thought process with them anymore so I couldn't tell you how they got to think like that. My guess is they feel this is what there membership wants and that is always the most important aspect of any organization. The non members were always considered on some tough decisions but never before and rightfully so what the Members think and want... And like anything else its the members who put the BOD's in place through elections most of the time and I always said if someone within the PWNA felt differently then they can step up and run of a directors position or just leave the org. and move on.

Hey when and if the Coalition comes out with different BMP's there going to catch some flack also because some others won't agree with them either.

This Houston is a mess and I will say it again...Even though Houston may be a beautiful place to live I am glad I do not have to Powerwash anywhere near there to earn a living. Hopefully when all this crap gets to NY I am retired from it all.....
 
Clean County PW said:
lol...Jeff your Logo will be nationwide one way or another. Yup we all made mistakes with Carlos as he did to. Those questions were groundballs which is the reason I asked them. They were to easy... and why was that?? Because we did nothing about it on any of them and the fault lies with us guys Jeff and that includes yourself... We failed and we shouldn't have. We absolutely failed. You may not think so but to me it was just that a failure.

Just got off the phone today with Joe Walters who happened to call and I related a story that Ron here knows to be 100% truth. I was heading to spend the weekend with Kathy in Atlantic City all comp'd and just couldn't get there fast enough. Free suite and I got this offer right around Kathy's birthday and this was a month before the UAMCC Convention....and what do I do?? Just about the whole 3hr drive down there I have Ron on one line and Carlos on the other. These two would not speak to each other so I spoke to them seperately and relayed the info to each. Kathy was not happy about this because literally I had to have been on the phone for at least 2 of those 3 hrs.

The org. then was breaking at the core and you Jeff,myself,Rob, Scott, Don, Carlos,Ron, Mike and a couple of others were right at the core and we blew it but still I can't slam Robert, I am Friendly with Ron, I am on good terms again with Carlos even though neither one of us will ever forget, I have given Everett Abrams a rock solid recommendation on LinkedIN and on and on. These guys and yes I collided with some of them are extremely passionate about this industry... there all good guys.

Back to Robert just knowing what he went thru back when he started the PWNA is some compelling story. He stepped outside the box and went for it. I never met a more knowledgable guy about Enviro cleaning then Robert....Nobody even close. Also Robert has always said that the very least we should direct the water away from a storm drain and if no one cared then there would be no problems here but apparently the EPA type groups want something thats unattainable so they need to be guided and in this industry we have no Godly amount of lose cash to get the high powered talking heads in there to get the EPA to lighten there reasoning... So what do we have??? Each other and our industry.

We all made mistakes and some of us will be gone in a few years in this industry and the next group will be running the show. They already are... but.. hopefully they get more backing and they see how us guys have screwed up so they can do better there time up.... and I'm guessing there not going to be successful by slamming there predesesors who paved the way for them.

Personally I always thought this country is getting to be to environmentally conscious where there restricting us as a nation to succeed and if you go back in time we were the leaders in factories/Industrial and innovative type work which made us great. Today where squeezing ourselves right down the toilet where other countries are blowing right past us. These countries are becoming self suffucient and they don't restrict the creative and hard workers from getting there jobs done. Since our country no longer is like this I praise guys like Robert who at least get in there with those think tanks and try to keep us in business by curtailing there unbelievable thought pattern of how we should clean.

Simply put---Robert is a Godsend then and should be respected today whether you agree with him or not. He does give a darn as does Joe Walters and many other guys who paved the way for many. The internet and the facebooks etc. have brought us into a different world and I'm probably starting to now get out of date with all the technology out there but I will say this.... and Facebook is at the highest on my shitz list. These sights have brought down the standard of people being classy and upstanding to beyond belief. It has changed people and made them shallow in many aspects. It turned plenty of people to say things thru the written word and thru pics to make others look bad where they were never taught by there parents to be like that and to just cut someone down right from there Keyboard whether the person deserved it or not. Its sad...but its the world we live in today and I hope my girls do OK with all of this and every now and then they tell me they wish none of this was around so they could have had more fun going outside just to call for a friend by knocking on there door... Those days are soon to be ancient history... So this is why I try not to be as hurtful to some as I have been in the past.... and in Roberts case yes I am and always will be impressed by how much he has done and how much he cared and just how down to earth and genuine of a person he is just by the way he speaks.

Just an all around good guy who has a son that we know who is very similiar. I'm glad I've met them.
Click to expand...

Godsend. Come on John, they are businessmen, trying to make a buck and help sure, but still trying to make a buck

As for the UAMCC, sure it failed, bums me right out or use to. All I can ever say on the UAMCC is, I tried, as did several others. I think now it was doomed, to many people dont like Mexicans LOL, thats right, I'm playing the race card LOL Should of had a Wop, Guinea, Mick, Polark running the UAMCC

John you are to in love to see straight.
 
:shakehead: Joe Walters is real - and a very nice and helpful gentleman. They are an excellent insurance agency - leave them alone.
 
Joe will likely get three calls from this Blog, I think Joes ok. He just a vendor trying to get business off the org. Thats what anyone should be able to do as a vendor, org bring members and vendors sell them stuff and provide service of value.

CarolinaProWash said:
:shakehead: Joe Walters is real - and a very nice and helpful gentleman. They are an excellent insurance agency - leave them alone.
Click to expand...
 
Yup Joe Walters called me the other day. Joe and I talk whenever we see each other which has been rare these days because I have not attended any Power washing events and except for maybe a couple of local stuff here and popping into to see some other friends booths at different shows I'm staying away..... for maybe a couple of years at most. Then I may come back. I liked being on the BOD and I always like to be right there when important decisions had to be made. It was never about the money with me and I may be an odd duck but I liked doing board work. Kind of miss it actually.

As for Joe the last time he called me was when the Everett fiasco was in full form. We both liked Everett and we both liked Carlos and it was upsetting to both of us to see these guys go thru what they did. You have to know the real history to really know how that all transpired on both fronts. The Everett one was the most brutal because he offered to resign but us the BOD were to enamared by his charasmatic,Confident and knowledgable style so we couldn't muster the guts to let him go. Thats where that blunder was and Everett will tell you today he was in a tremendous crossroads then. He was going to do his training school and that was the closest thing to his heart. There was no questioning that but as for his leadership role for the PWNA he was willing to give that up and we would not let him... Thats the mistake there... and what happened after that is history.

Jeff says I'm to in love to see straight. Thats fine. I'm use to getting flak from Jeff at every angle. Jeff is a good guy who is lucky to be alive and he has done well to get where he is today. Good man. But one thing and Jeff may never agree with this....I see things very clearly which at times is dangerous because when you see the pieces of the puzzle are not adding up that becomes emotionally draining and the day will come when I commit to something here and follow it all the way thru instead of pointing out the problems for others to try and fix.

So love may be blind but facts never are----Thats for you Jeff:wink2:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top