Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
That would be a good question to ask the PWNA reps.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
What would you do?
- Thread starter Tony Shelton
- Start date
That would be a good question to ask the PWNA reps.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Regardless whether it is legal or not, you PWNA members might want to call the BOD and ask them when they plan to secretly meet with your AHJs and ban you from attending.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
I got a call this weekend from someone asking what my motive was for asking for PWNA board members to come out and condemn this action.
They thought that my motive might be to get someone at the PWNA to respond so as to "prove" what I've been saying here and to use it against them.
Ladies and gentlemen, I HAVE THE PROOF. There is no need for anyone to corroborate it.
My motive in asking for some board member from the PWNA to condemn this is an effort to determine if there is even one board member left with enough integrity to be trusted to do the right thing for contractors.
As it stands, this has been up for days now and NOT ONE has been willing to stand up and take the side of contractors. They continue to stonewall the issue and protect these "icons" who have perpetrated this assault on Nevada Contractors and, by extention, the assault on YOU.
By the end of today it will have been proven by a shadow of a doubt that the goal of the PWNA matches the goal of their highly protected environmental committee unless there is SOMEONE within that org who is willing to step forward and state otherwise.
You have failed the first test PWNA BOD. Part two will be coming up and it will consist of posting of just how far your committee, AND members of your BOD, have gone to take regulations that we, contractors, reported to your committee as being easy to comply with, and sought to destroy them and make them more restrictive for contractors.
If you don't speak up soon, there is no other position contractors can take than the conclusion that you are fully complicit with these kinds of actions. As such, you open yourself up to the same legal ramifications that your environmental committee already faces.
They thought that my motive might be to get someone at the PWNA to respond so as to "prove" what I've been saying here and to use it against them.
Ladies and gentlemen, I HAVE THE PROOF. There is no need for anyone to corroborate it.
My motive in asking for some board member from the PWNA to condemn this is an effort to determine if there is even one board member left with enough integrity to be trusted to do the right thing for contractors.
As it stands, this has been up for days now and NOT ONE has been willing to stand up and take the side of contractors. They continue to stonewall the issue and protect these "icons" who have perpetrated this assault on Nevada Contractors and, by extention, the assault on YOU.
By the end of today it will have been proven by a shadow of a doubt that the goal of the PWNA matches the goal of their highly protected environmental committee unless there is SOMEONE within that org who is willing to step forward and state otherwise.
You have failed the first test PWNA BOD. Part two will be coming up and it will consist of posting of just how far your committee, AND members of your BOD, have gone to take regulations that we, contractors, reported to your committee as being easy to comply with, and sought to destroy them and make them more restrictive for contractors.
If you don't speak up soon, there is no other position contractors can take than the conclusion that you are fully complicit with these kinds of actions. As such, you open yourself up to the same legal ramifications that your environmental committee already faces.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
In advance I would like to show that I have consistently used our Las Vegas BMP's as an example of good BMP's for contractors.
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...-Why-is-this-happening&highlight=lvstormwater
In 2011
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...ter-Reclaim-in-Florida&highlight=lvstormwater
and
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...-Find-A-BMP-Post-A-BMP&highlight=lvstormwater
and
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/showthread.php?22275-Waste-water&highlight=lvstormwater
And in 2010 here is another link to the BMP's that Robert claimed he was "unable to find".
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...and-Butyl-in-the-sewer&highlight=lvstormwater
In 2009
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...hat-this-was-happening&highlight=lvstormwater
and
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/showthread.php?16371-Nevada&highlight=lvstormwater
and
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...washing-industry/page2&highlight=lvstormwater
And on the UAMCC board
http://www.uamcc.org/forum/showthread.php/5246-back-at-the-gas-stations-again?highlight=lvstormwater
And this one entitled "SENSIBLE BMP's"
http://www.uamcc.org/forum/showthread.php/4988-Sensible-BMP-s?highlight=lvstormwater
Robert and Jim were directly involved in some of these threads. Robert even posted our BMP's in another thread on here.
I am posting this so that before I move to the next item on the agenda, there can be no doubt that the Las Vegas BMP's were posted many times and used as an example of good, common sense BMP's for contractors.
Search for yourself, there have been zero complaints about the Las Vegas BMP's from any contractor.
There have been no contractors from Las Vegas asking for help in dealing with rules that were too restrictive.
There is nothing anywhere to indicate that there is anything at all wrong with the Las Vegas BMPs.
PWNA Board members, anyone care to take the high road before the next hammer comes down? Once it is all revealed I will make it my personal quest to make everyone understand that anyone can say they are sorry when they are caught red handed, but it takes a real leader to step up and condemn an action before all the evidence comes out. The time to do the right thing is now.
Eric Clark?
John Nearon?
Charlie Arnold?
Daryl Mirza?
Paul Horsley?
Mark Palubiak?
Ty Eubanks?
Shaun Downham?
Dan Galvin?
Michael Hinderliter?
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...-Why-is-this-happening&highlight=lvstormwater
In 2011
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...ter-Reclaim-in-Florida&highlight=lvstormwater
and
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...-Find-A-BMP-Post-A-BMP&highlight=lvstormwater
and
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/showthread.php?22275-Waste-water&highlight=lvstormwater
And in 2010 here is another link to the BMP's that Robert claimed he was "unable to find".
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...and-Butyl-in-the-sewer&highlight=lvstormwater
In 2009
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...hat-this-was-happening&highlight=lvstormwater
and
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/showthread.php?16371-Nevada&highlight=lvstormwater
and
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...washing-industry/page2&highlight=lvstormwater
And on the UAMCC board
http://www.uamcc.org/forum/showthread.php/5246-back-at-the-gas-stations-again?highlight=lvstormwater
And this one entitled "SENSIBLE BMP's"
http://www.uamcc.org/forum/showthread.php/4988-Sensible-BMP-s?highlight=lvstormwater
Robert and Jim were directly involved in some of these threads. Robert even posted our BMP's in another thread on here.
I am posting this so that before I move to the next item on the agenda, there can be no doubt that the Las Vegas BMP's were posted many times and used as an example of good, common sense BMP's for contractors.
Search for yourself, there have been zero complaints about the Las Vegas BMP's from any contractor.
There have been no contractors from Las Vegas asking for help in dealing with rules that were too restrictive.
There is nothing anywhere to indicate that there is anything at all wrong with the Las Vegas BMPs.
PWNA Board members, anyone care to take the high road before the next hammer comes down? Once it is all revealed I will make it my personal quest to make everyone understand that anyone can say they are sorry when they are caught red handed, but it takes a real leader to step up and condemn an action before all the evidence comes out. The time to do the right thing is now.
Eric Clark?
John Nearon?
Charlie Arnold?
Daryl Mirza?
Paul Horsley?
Mark Palubiak?
Ty Eubanks?
Shaun Downham?
Dan Galvin?
Michael Hinderliter?
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Looks like there's no integrity left.
So I will continue.
We have already established that is it well known and publicized that the Las Vegas BMP's are reasonable and sensible. I've let everyone know it repeatedly over the past four years including sending excerpts and links to Robert when he "asked" for help in crafting the PWNA's BMPs.
Everyone is well aware that we have NO PROBLEM here in Las Vegas.
With that in mind, here is the correspondence sent by Robert Hinderliter to 22 AHJ's in Las Vegas and the surrounding area.
Mr. XXXXXXX
I just did an in-depth study of your LVV BMP's vs. PWNA PMP's for Cosmetic Cleasing for our XXXXX event.
I think you will find this interesting and helpful. Several places I placed comments, hope you find this information helpful.
If there are any mistakes, corrections, additions, or omissions everyone please send me your comments.
The file for each BMP is attached, thank you for your help.
He then goes on to take each section of our 5 year old simple and outstanding BMP's and rip them apart. He takes each paragraph of our BMP and suggests changing it so a full page or pages of PWNA BMP information going so far in one section to state the following:
(Note: This is extremely bad to the point of being illegal. This needs to be reviewed
He goes on to state:
I am working part time and semi-retired, the least expensive way to correct some of these items would be to hire myself as a consultant and correct and train your staff. I have done this for San Antonio, TX: Charlotte, NC; plus most of the Dallas Ft Worth Metroplex Cities.
Remember..........we will not shop these BMPs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where are the men of integrity in the PWNA??????????
So I will continue.
We have already established that is it well known and publicized that the Las Vegas BMP's are reasonable and sensible. I've let everyone know it repeatedly over the past four years including sending excerpts and links to Robert when he "asked" for help in crafting the PWNA's BMPs.
Everyone is well aware that we have NO PROBLEM here in Las Vegas.
With that in mind, here is the correspondence sent by Robert Hinderliter to 22 AHJ's in Las Vegas and the surrounding area.
Mr. XXXXXXX
I just did an in-depth study of your LVV BMP's vs. PWNA PMP's for Cosmetic Cleasing for our XXXXX event.
I think you will find this interesting and helpful. Several places I placed comments, hope you find this information helpful.
If there are any mistakes, corrections, additions, or omissions everyone please send me your comments.
The file for each BMP is attached, thank you for your help.
He then goes on to take each section of our 5 year old simple and outstanding BMP's and rip them apart. He takes each paragraph of our BMP and suggests changing it so a full page or pages of PWNA BMP information going so far in one section to state the following:
(Note: This is extremely bad to the point of being illegal. This needs to be reviewed
He goes on to state:
I am working part time and semi-retired, the least expensive way to correct some of these items would be to hire myself as a consultant and correct and train your staff. I have done this for San Antonio, TX: Charlotte, NC; plus most of the Dallas Ft Worth Metroplex Cities.
Remember..........we will not shop these BMPs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where are the men of integrity in the PWNA??????????
Doug Rucker
Roundtable Host 2009
Christopher
Moderator
Wow, is that a conflict of interest or what?
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
I don't think I was very clear about this part:
This is what Robert said about one section of our BMPs - these are Robert's words, not mine:
Note: This is extremely bad to the point of being illegal. This needs to be reviewed
He is telling 22 of our AHJ's that the sensible BMPs that are in place are "extremely bad to the point of being illegal".
He is telling 22 people who are in charge of making the rules for contractors that the rules they have made need fixing and he is the man to do it.
This is your PWNA at work.
It is signed as follows:
Robert M. Hinderliter, Founder PWNA & UAMCC; President PWNA Environmental Committee President Rahsco Manufacturing Co., Inc,; MultiTech Environmental Remediation Systems Home Office, Call Cell anytime 817-366-3041; Personal Email roberthinderliter@yahoo.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/roberthinderliter; Semi-Retired; Working Monday through Thursday
I'm glad he listed all the responsible parties in his signature. It will make it easier for the attorneys for all the good men and women who have been forced out of business in the past in Charlotte, Houston, Atlanta, Minnesota (and soon Nevada) to know who to hold responsible. I hope the UAMCC has ample records to show they have made their best effort to distance themselves from this man.
This is what Robert said about one section of our BMPs - these are Robert's words, not mine:
Note: This is extremely bad to the point of being illegal. This needs to be reviewed
He is telling 22 of our AHJ's that the sensible BMPs that are in place are "extremely bad to the point of being illegal".
He is telling 22 people who are in charge of making the rules for contractors that the rules they have made need fixing and he is the man to do it.
This is your PWNA at work.
It is signed as follows:
Robert M. Hinderliter, Founder PWNA & UAMCC; President PWNA Environmental Committee President Rahsco Manufacturing Co., Inc,; MultiTech Environmental Remediation Systems Home Office, Call Cell anytime 817-366-3041; Personal Email roberthinderliter@yahoo.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/roberthinderliter; Semi-Retired; Working Monday through Thursday
I'm glad he listed all the responsible parties in his signature. It will make it easier for the attorneys for all the good men and women who have been forced out of business in the past in Charlotte, Houston, Atlanta, Minnesota (and soon Nevada) to know who to hold responsible. I hope the UAMCC has ample records to show they have made their best effort to distance themselves from this man.
Christopher
Moderator
Thanks for saying it again Tony, now it makes sense to me now.
Wow.
This really needs to be looked into, who do you think needs to be called, what agencies, what organizations?
Wow.
This really needs to be looked into, who do you think needs to be called, what agencies, what organizations?
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
The one org responsible for all this is fully aware of this situation yet they have chosen to sit it out to see if it will go away.
That makes them even more culpable.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
Scott Stone
New member
Culpable is a big word. Try guilty.
RandyB
New member
My opinion on this has not not changed one bit from the beginning when I came in to this industry almost 20 years ago. Sensible wash water management and retention or discharge to a landscaped (grass, sand, rock) area there really need not be too much made of it. Haul it away or filter and reuse the water EVEN BETTER!!! But for ANY national organization that claims to represent their members to contact the E.P.A. either state or federal is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE. The entire membership should resign at once. If the UAMCC had pulled a stunt like this EVERYBODY in the industry would be on our a$$. Same old bullcrap from the same people.
apwasher
New member
Tony I can't blame them for not answering in this format. But using the uamcc In these documents will be answerd. I will be requesting an official quarry into the usage of the uamcc name. To my knowledge no one on our BOD or membership was aware of this representation, nor do we agree with the statements of the letters. Also will be requesting a full report and copies of these letters.
It would be at least in good taste for them to ask permission to represent their and our members this way.
It would be at least in good taste for them to ask permission to represent their and our members this way.
Kory
Member
Tony, I would like to thank you for all of your hard work and dedication to this industry. If only 10% of this industry had your testicular fortitude, compassion, and drive we would not have these problems. Thank you for opening our eyes and being the voice and drive for a change. I have been very busy in my business and life and have not been vocal or involved lately but I assure you I still care. These PWNA thugs are a lot like the current government. They are not the common man, nor do they stand for us or with us. To them everything is the bottom dollar and POWER. Good hearted, hard working folks get walked on. Times are changing and people are opening their eyes and taking mental notes. Back a dog in a corner and watch out because it will fight. This fight is not over but if we stick together and keep fighting for the truth it will prevail and hopefully justice will be served or the market will correct itself.
Thank you again Tony and Ron!
P.S let the cat out of the bag and shoot the smoking gun!
Thank you again Tony and Ron!
P.S let the cat out of the bag and shoot the smoking gun!
Steven Button
Administrator
... A BMP that meets the requirements of the CWA (the law), and is deemed correct by federal authorities who approve the municipality NPDES is being questioned... hmmmmm
Guy Blackmon
Roundtable Host 2009
This isn't too hard to figure out...but lets look at it.
Point #1..... An event like this was held in Phoenix AZ. last year with "supposed talks" with ahj's there. I counted no more than 7-8 attendees to the event, and most of them were employees of one of the hosts of the event. Another one of the hosts made a veiled threat on the forum to one of the AZ Contractors "Bus Stop" contracts, the host said in talking with the ahj's in AZ this "Bus Stop" contract could be in jeopardy.....I saw this myself and pointed it out to a few people...Then all of a sudden the comment was taken down. There were only 2 AZ contractors in that group and one of them is out of business (Karma). 2 were major vendors of reclaim equipment and had no real business interests in AZ....except to gain a customer base.
Point #2.....Las Vegas, basically same people putting on event. Again no one directly connected to area business (PW Contractor) or living there. Now remember not just anyone can attend these events (Just Like AZ), you have to be "Chosen" and are "Vetted" through a committee (HhhhhhMmmmm). This time I count 12-13 attendees... but not sure if they were vendors or attendees. Again hell bent on speaking with ahj's there but felt no obligation to ask local Contractors if that was OK...or inform them, or even invite them to the "event" even though it could directly affect how they make a living .....Why?
Point #3....Why would the BOD of this national org. allow this to continue? Well it's kind of obvious....they can't do anything about it, they don't run it and have no control over it (Or Care) and neither do the Members. How many PW vendors are sponsored by this orgs. website??? Answer...1. How many PW vendors are directly linked to their website??? Answer 1. Who founded the org.? Who is a current BOD member of the org?
Point #4....I was contacted by a Contractor in NJ about a month ago. An Enforcement Official told him that he had to stop (He & his crew were already working) washing condos because he was violating wash-water regulations. The Contractor explained that his wash water was re-mediated into the soil and there was no off property discharge (Anywhere) to the MS4 and asked him to explain "How" he was in violation. The Official replied "You Will Stop Now Or Be Sited" unless you reclaim it. I took a quick look at the Regs. and saw absolutely no violation and emailed him my findings. Long story short he went over the guy's head and got it straightened out. How many days did he and his crew loose??? Don't know. How much money did he and his employees loose??? Don't know. Does this sound familiar??? Are you next????...Am I next?????
Look I'm not attacking anyone or being negative, these are the facts..... I might be some dumb, but I ain't plum dumb.......Carry On.
Point #1..... An event like this was held in Phoenix AZ. last year with "supposed talks" with ahj's there. I counted no more than 7-8 attendees to the event, and most of them were employees of one of the hosts of the event. Another one of the hosts made a veiled threat on the forum to one of the AZ Contractors "Bus Stop" contracts, the host said in talking with the ahj's in AZ this "Bus Stop" contract could be in jeopardy.....I saw this myself and pointed it out to a few people...Then all of a sudden the comment was taken down. There were only 2 AZ contractors in that group and one of them is out of business (Karma). 2 were major vendors of reclaim equipment and had no real business interests in AZ....except to gain a customer base.
Point #2.....Las Vegas, basically same people putting on event. Again no one directly connected to area business (PW Contractor) or living there. Now remember not just anyone can attend these events (Just Like AZ), you have to be "Chosen" and are "Vetted" through a committee (HhhhhhMmmmm). This time I count 12-13 attendees... but not sure if they were vendors or attendees. Again hell bent on speaking with ahj's there but felt no obligation to ask local Contractors if that was OK...or inform them, or even invite them to the "event" even though it could directly affect how they make a living .....Why?
Point #3....Why would the BOD of this national org. allow this to continue? Well it's kind of obvious....they can't do anything about it, they don't run it and have no control over it (Or Care) and neither do the Members. How many PW vendors are sponsored by this orgs. website??? Answer...1. How many PW vendors are directly linked to their website??? Answer 1. Who founded the org.? Who is a current BOD member of the org?
Point #4....I was contacted by a Contractor in NJ about a month ago. An Enforcement Official told him that he had to stop (He & his crew were already working) washing condos because he was violating wash-water regulations. The Contractor explained that his wash water was re-mediated into the soil and there was no off property discharge (Anywhere) to the MS4 and asked him to explain "How" he was in violation. The Official replied "You Will Stop Now Or Be Sited" unless you reclaim it. I took a quick look at the Regs. and saw absolutely no violation and emailed him my findings. Long story short he went over the guy's head and got it straightened out. How many days did he and his crew loose??? Don't know. How much money did he and his employees loose??? Don't know. Does this sound familiar??? Are you next????...Am I next?????
Look I'm not attacking anyone or being negative, these are the facts..... I might be some dumb, but I ain't plum dumb.......Carry On.
Will the UAmCc support this behavior or contractor friendly support?
I guess we will find out.
Text me for info on Milwaukee event. 480-522-5227
Dollarspa
Active member
"a good rule of thumb " If you own a company /organization and you don't use it ....don't sell it (for one dollar) don't give it away for free ....Burn it...Take the ashes and burn it 100 times more....because if you don't and you ever mention that you once started/owned it/founder ....someone will come and try to ruin you for mentioning your history...